cjco

I figured it out before my question even appeared here. The uncle neglected to mention that this particular tour departs from Shenzhen, thus requiring personal entry to China, thus requiring a visa.

I see now that tours departing from HK ask for passport info so they can obtain a group visa. However, a Guangzhou tour on viator is about the same price as a personal visa plus train fare, so it's really just a matter of convenience.

jamar

Is there a special exception in place for Americans? Or is 关系 coming into play in my case? Twice I've applied for visas in Vancouver and twice I've gotten them, despite not living there. When I applied through a local travel agency, I got a 1-year multi-entry like I would've had I gotten a US-based visa agent to do it at home. The second time a few months later (I'd lost my other passport, otherwise I wouldn't have had to apply for a new one this soon) I applied directly to the visa service center for same-day rush and only got a half-year two-entry visa, which is still better than being outright refused or being handed a single-entry visa.

JPDM

The question is when. These "residency rules" were not always in place. My girlfriend is Australia and was waiting for her permanent residence. She was turned down and sent her stuff to a friend in Australia who submitted for her and Fedex the passport with visa back.
If the is something special for Americans, maybe but it is not in the rules and never heard of an exception since the new rules are in place.

jamar

Well, the "when" is March for the 1-year and for the 6-month double entry it was two weeks ago. If I can get 10-year visas from the US now I'll just make the trip to a consulate in the US.

Loren Pechtel

Just to add a data point here: My wife and I just got 10 year visas. Mine is 60 days/entry, hers (China-born) is 90 days/entry.

After looking more carefully at the visas I see they're just Ls, not the Q2s I was expecting as we always stay with relatives. I don't see that it matters one way or the other but I didn't realize they issued 90 day Ls.

JPDM

Makes a difference as with Q visas you get longer stays.

JPDM

"Travelers on a business visa may not stay more than 90 days in China within a one-year period and are limited in their activities."
First time that I hear about this.
http://www.bna.com/china-authorities...-n17179895608/

moondog

It's not surprising that the Xi regime is pushing for tighter controls, BUT the 10-year visa thing was and is a game changer.

jiejie

If this is true (which I kind of doubt), then how are foreign companies going to deal with sending employees over on M visas to visit factories, negotiate contracts, etc. Over multiple visits per year, this could easily add up to more than 90 days inside China. My (now-retired) cousin based in the USA had responsibility for setting up an R&D center several years ago in a central Chinese city. It certainly took him many visits and a lot more than 90 days (usually in 2-week chunks) to get this done, but by no means could his activities be construed as "working" in China. Another good friend was a senior ex-Big Oil executive, heading up his own exploration company, requiring many visits to China per year with long, long multi-week negotiating sessions with Chinese government entities. I'm pretty sure it added up to more than 90 days cumulative in a year's time. How is China going to reconcile this with provisions of int'l tax treaties (such as that with the USA) that conflict with this? I realize that Immigration, Labor, and Tax Bureaux in China are all different entities, but when it comes to the issue of foreigners working in China, they are inextricably linked. Left hand, meet Right hand.

Is it part of a larger Xi anti-foreigner (anti-foreign business) strategy? Possibly.

I can see where those in China who have been truly working longer-term on M visas (punctuated by strategically-timed exits and re-entries to China) could be very vulnerable now, but this is a small subset of the worldwide contingent of M visa holders.

On the part about those with Residence Permits having to report any changes within 10 days, that's not anything that new or burdensome. I had to chuckle about the requirement to carry around the Originals of Work Permit (a separate booklet) and Residence Permit (in the Passport) at all times. Yeah, right. Like I'd risk loss or theft just on the outside chance of being stopped and given the "Papers Please" routine. Been there, done that during the 6 months prior to the 2008 Olympics. I'd recommend carrying copies (as well as your zanzhuzheng, the certificate of Temporary Residence showing your accommodation). If police or immigration authorities want to escort me back to the apartment to inspect the originals, fine. There are also a lot of foreigners whose companies don't let them have possession of their Work Permits.

JPDM

You are right Jiejie but that seems to be the point, if you are doing business longer than 90 days then you need a work visa. The US is also not too kind to business travelers who show up too often. My son who works for a US-based consulting company had to get a work visa at one point as he was going there too often.
In any case, I have asked about this 90-day thing to an immigration lawyer based in China. Waiting to hear back after the weekend probably.

moondog

A friend of mine just got a 2 year M in Los Angeles with 120 days/stay instead of the 10 year M because they hit him with the 60 day rule.

My prediction is that -- in spite of the current crackdown on M people -- the 60 day rule isn't long for this world.

Why?
-to the best of my knowledge, the US side does not have a similar restriction
-the 10-year visa was a serious shock to the system; it was implemented immediately at PRC consulates worldwide (e.g. another friend of mine fetched one in Manila); let's give the Chinese a chance to react to its implications (that run counter to the Xi regime's ambitions)

Short term advice
-M invitation letters should come from powerful players and explicitly state the need for >60 days/stay -- "Mr John Jones operates a $475 million hedge fund, is an expert in our industry, and we require his presence in China for 120 day periods in 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions."

31570324

Which chinese visa should I apply for as my wife is chinese citizen living abroad and we want to visit her parents and travel through china? I can apply for a "L" visa like i always did, but is there any chance to get a visa with a longer validity?
Or may its possible to get a Resident Permit even we don't live in china? My father in law is a policeman but will retire this year. May it would be a good idea to use his good connections until they are gone?

JPDM

You can apply for a Q visa (for family members). It will come with no duration for the stay. When you arrive in China, you go to the PSB and they decide how long you get. My girlfriend got one year stay.
There are 2 types for short or long stays.

31570324

Q1 and Q2, I know. But is it really possible to get this while my wife life abroad with me and without intent to stay in china for longer?

qpr

But unfortunately that doesnīt work for german citizens.

If you get a Q2 visa, you maybe can stay up to 180 days, but sometimes you just get 30 or maybe 40 days, itīs always a lottery.

Ask for 180 days, maybe you get it maybe not.

@ threadstarter

You just need an invitation from a chinese family member, who lives in China.

Your wife still holds the chinese citizenship?
Then your wife should invite you (that works if you have a copy of her chinese ID).