Concern About Data Collection for Precheck
Jan 17, 2015, 1:13 am
#16
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SYD (perenially), GVA (not in a long time)
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So you're saying only 1 in 10,000,000,000 (that's ten billion) people are terrorists? Given that's greater than the population of earth, and we've had several terrorist attacks in the last week, not to mention the Islamic State situation, I think your math is off... a lot.
The point is that identifying terrorists by which store they choose for groceries, their credit rating or their comments on Facebook is silly when the overwhelming majority of people world wide are not terrorists.
Jan 17, 2015, 5:30 am
#17
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Kitchener, Canada
Posts: 164
Thats exactly what its going to be eventually. Facial recognition cameras in businesses with data uploaded will ensure they know everywhere you have been, access to phone password (they already can), electronic purchase history, your employer, social media, and what will be next is applying associations. For example the electronic data of your brother or uncle shows he purchased 1000 bullets and a knife - you will be detained by TSA for questioning due to unreasonable and suspicious association purchase.
Jan 17, 2015, 5:31 am
#18
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For those who dont click:
" consent to mine your grocery receipts, your credit card purchases, and even your Facebook posts to determine if you are a terrorist risk – not just once but on an ongoing basis.."
" what you post on social media while you are enrolled in PreCheck – it is fair game"
" information collected by the agency’s private sector contractors could be used for other government or private purposes"
" consent to mine your grocery receipts, your credit card purchases, and even your Facebook posts to determine if you are a terrorist risk – not just once but on an ongoing basis.."
" what you post on social media while you are enrolled in PreCheck – it is fair game"
" information collected by the agency’s private sector contractors could be used for other government or private purposes"
IIRC, one of the suggestions that could get you 'points' (demerits) was ordering an airline special meal. Apparently that might include things like halal or even vegan meals. Unusual = suspicious, right?
Unsurprisingly, I do not recall any mention of easy, transparent ways for citizens to challenge false 'points' assigned to their record. Think how bad it is to correct a mistake on your credit record - now magnify that x100 and apply it to everything you do.
The apparent black mark US travellers are currently receiving for the crime of travelling to/through IST is an example of how similar information is already being used.
Jan 17, 2015, 5:34 am
#19
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Kitchener, Canada
Posts: 164
Some of this dates back at least as far as Napolitano's early days. IIRC, she wanted a points-based 'domestic extremism' index. More points, more scrutiny and/or restrictions. I suspect this idea is not dead and will likely be linked to a universally-required national ID if/when implemented.
IIRC, one of the suggestions that could get you 'points' (demerits) was ordering an airline special meal. Apparently that might include things like halal or even vegan meals. Unusual = suspicious, right?
Unsurprisingly, I do not recall any mention of easy, transparent ways for citizens to challenge false 'points' assigned to their record. Think how bad it is to correct a mistake on your credit record - now magnify that x100 and apply it to everything you do.
IIRC, one of the suggestions that could get you 'points' (demerits) was ordering an airline special meal. Apparently that might include things like halal or even vegan meals. Unusual = suspicious, right?
Unsurprisingly, I do not recall any mention of easy, transparent ways for citizens to challenge false 'points' assigned to their record. Think how bad it is to correct a mistake on your credit record - now magnify that x100 and apply it to everything you do.
Jan 17, 2015, 10:17 am
#20
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
I found the solicitation.
From the Request For Proposal:
Somebody can help by trying to find the 2013 RFI...
From the Statement of Work:
There's nothing in this section that prohibits robocalls.
They can sell you data for other marketing purposes unless you opt out:
I didn't see any requirement to review social media or to do any recurring surveillance that was noted in the article. Perhaps this was another RFP.
It's still extortion.
From the Request For Proposal:
Somebody can help by trying to find the 2013 RFI...
From the Statement of Work:
There's nothing in this section that prohibits robocalls.
They can sell you data for other marketing purposes unless you opt out:
I didn't see any requirement to review social media or to do any recurring surveillance that was noted in the article. Perhaps this was another RFP.
It's still extortion.
ETA: http://www.fastcompany.com/3014732/f...ecurity-faster
Last edited by petaluma1; Jan 17, 2015 at 10:31 am Reason: to add link
Jan 17, 2015, 2:32 pm
#22
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
Oh yes, data mining is extremely effective, I agree. The question is - at what point is it worth our every move being analysed?
Jan 17, 2015, 9:03 pm
#23
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So you're saying only 1 in 10,000,000,000 (that's ten billion) people are terrorists? Given that's greater than the population of earth, and we've had several terrorist attacks in the last week, not to mention the Islamic State situation, I think your math is off... a lot.
In the past dozen years TSA has screened 700 million pax a year, or a total of 8 billion searches, which is more than the Earth’s population. Granted they did not search every individual person on Earth, and most of their customers are “repeat” customers. Many on this board have been screened hundreds if not thousands of times, and on their 1000th screening were found to be “Still NOT a terrorist.”
TSA has screened 8 billion passengers and found ZERO terrorists. What does that math tell you?
Jan 17, 2015, 9:29 pm
#24
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Jan 19, 2015, 5:32 am
#25
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
So you're saying only 1 in 10,000,000,000 (that's ten billion) people are terrorists? Given that's greater than the population of earth, and we've had several terrorist attacks in the last week, not to mention the Islamic State situation, I think your math is off... a lot.
Jan 21, 2015, 5:37 am
#27
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
Jan 21, 2015, 12:42 pm
#28
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 729
And why does your personal convenience trump others' right to privacy?
It seems you would benefit from reading a classic essay on the value of privacy.
Jan 23, 2015, 1:52 am
#29
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
There's a huge gap between 1% (there would be approximately 3,161,000 terrorists) 0.00000001% (there'd be approximately 0.03161 of a terrorist). The real number is somewhere in that enormous gap.
Jan 23, 2015, 2:45 am
#30
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SYD (perenially), GVA (not in a long time)
Programs: QF PS, EK-Gold, Security Theatre Critic
Posts: 6,792
My point, again, is that if more than 99.99%* of American citizens/CostCo customers/MasterCard holders/PTA members/Facebook users are not terrorists, then using citizenship, store membership, credit card status etc is an absurd way to identify who's a terrorist and who isn't.
* Can we agree on >99.99%? Or do you want to argue that there are more than 31,610 people could apply to PreCheck and who are planning to target aircraft from a US airport?
TSA misses about 70% of dangerous things going through checkpoints. If there are even 300 people actively trying to get through checkpoints with evil intent, ~210 of them would succeed.