spd476

At the time of the video, has the mother already been screened? I thought she was using a gate pass or similar to escort her daughter to the gate. It looks like after the daughter's patdown, they are both going back to get their belongings at the end of the xray belt. Then they are proceeding to their gate when the TSA screener and the mother get into the confrontation that leads to the arrest.

One of the original articles I read said that the arrest occured after the TSA ordered the mother to go through the patdown after she had been previously screened and after the daughter's patdown. I'm not familiar with the airport, but it looks like the mother must have been screened to get to the point where the video was shot. Would the TSA have let her bypass security to witness the patdown? If the mother had not been screened and tried to go to the gate, then I understand the arrest. I don't think that's the case here. I think the situation had been diffused enough by the police to allow the daughter's patdown, then the TSA provoked the mother further by ordering a retaliatory screening on her.

Michael El

Yes the mother had been screened and was cleared. The TSA wanted to give her a groping as retaliation for fussing over her daughter being molested by Large Marge.

Slide101

This woman looked to me like she was trying to work with an untenable situation. Helpless to help her daughter and intent on protecting her but staying as calm as she could under the circumstances. The daughter was clearly violated and flinched when touched inappropriately -- and the screener was a big lady. And what's with all the male screeners and Police looking on. I wonder what this child's father would have done in this circumstance if he had been there. Seems like women traveling alone or with children are targets. Oh and of course elderly and the disabled. It's disgusting.

chollie

(bolding mine). I see this over and over again. Yeah, what is it? I never see female TSOs standing around gawking while a male is groped.

Sadly, I never see the female groper stop and ask one (or more) of the male gawkers if they have nothing better to do.

I thought of this while listing to Miaymae's interview yesterday. She's surrounded by cops and TSO folks and a large TSA groper who decides the optimum place to grope this small woman is while closely surrounded by a group of male watchers. Really?

Slide101

Yes, I read that stuff about that tiny woman (5 feet tall) at the PHoenix airport. Surrounded by screeners and I thought they were mostly men with just one TALL female screener. I can't blame that woman for feeling threatened by the screeners in that situation. Does anyone know what is happening on her case? I know the felony was thrown out -- it was incredible that she even got slapped with that.

Mientree

Which brings up a few thoughts... If the TSA was following procedure, then can some of the local TSA folks help me understand:

• If the mother had not fully cleared screening, why was she allowed to have her purse with her inside the screening area?
• Why were the passenger's belongings left on the end of the conveyor belt away from the passenger? (Especially when there is a table in the pat down area for such items.)
• I question why the passenger's witness was standing outside the pat down area (choice?, LEO imposed?, unclear she was allowed in?, TSA remaining silent on the option?), especially when there are multiple chairs within the pat down area.
• (slightly off-topic) Why the need for the detention box for a voluntary, administrative search? (If the person being screened deems to their ability that they cannot extricate themselves from the situation, it can readily change to a detention type scenario - which changes the rules for how the remainder of the interaction can and should take place.)
• Not sure if I ought to give the screener credit or not - a rather large individual enters the doorway to the screening area and she doesn't even bat an eye towards him. Good that she is not disctracted by either the witness with the phone or the officer blocking her. Bad that she doesn't appear to notice the officer's movement at all or even his voice telling the witness not to record the pat down. [Most people would glance at the movement.]
• Why was the passenger facing away from her belongings on the end of the conveyor belt where the TSA agent had her stand, since TSA did not keep her and her items together?
• Even though the procedure is explained to the minor passenger, can she give consent (and understanding) for the pat-down? I'd really like to know the answer to this one as a parent. Since the parent is right there, shouldn't the procedure be explained to both with the parent giving final consent for their minor child (who by most laws cannot enter into a contract without parental consent)?
• Is one pair or two of gloves the standard? I did see that she put on a pair of gloves she carried in her hand (presuming a fresh pair?). But, is it standard procedure for the screener to touch themselves and / or their clothing contaminating the gloves prior to testing them?
• Why is the testing area for the gloves in a "super secret" area away from the passenger, where the passenger has no option to see the test or results?
• Why did they need the witness to produce her ID inside the screening area? (To obtain a comment card?)
• I'm curious about the actions of the FSD - were his (in)actions following procedure?
• With regards to the FSD, it appears he either told the screener to have the witness removed or agreed with the screener to have her removed. Despite that, he tried to play innocent of the encounter. I am curious as to what circumstances that are / were legally allowed in this incident to ask her to leave the airport. Interesting though, that she was arrested for disorderly conduct and not trespassing.

I'd also love to have some of the LEOs on the board address the LE response shown, but I recognize the fact that too much that is seen relies on too much speculation of what was said during the encounter. The continued use of intimidating body language - the arm bar and "this close" hand gestures - does not appear to be appropriate and would appear to only escalate the situation. [Based on the video and limited information, in my opinion, it would appear that a disorderly charge would be tough to prove.]

And finally, on an unrelated note, the flags appear that they may be improperly displayed in regards to the respect that the US flag deserves.

chollie

Perhaps unintentionally appropriate.

There's not a whole lot of respect for or understanding of the US Constitution at PHX, so it's not surprising to see lack of respect for the flag.

mikeef

Absolutely, positively, 100% correct. Zero question about it. The woman is standing there and there is no movement from the LEO until she takes out her phone to videotape. Not even close. Nor is the patdown at 2:43, which is one of only a few incidents here. That girl was violated. I hope she sues everyone from the LEO to the guy who works the night shift at Sbarro's.

Mike

spd476

The LEO definitely moved to block her after she pulled out the phone. He even put his hand up by her face like he had done earlier in the video. I wish she would have kept filming. The youtube video posted in this thread has the TSA telling the police it's ok to film. He probably still would have arrested her on garbage disorderly conduct charges.

studentff

Do you consider being upset equivalent to being disruptive? Are all upset people disruptive in your mind? That seems to be the mentality of TSOs and LEOs who arrest passengers for being "disruptive."

I guess we're supposed to just bow down to your authoritah like good little subjects.

Mientree

Ron, Please refer to some of my questions above in addition to comments below.

Technically (and I believe I understand what you meant), the mother did not leave the checkpoint, so she never returned to it. (Or is this the semantics argument about check point versus screening area, etc.?)

The first time I see her return to the general area where the pat-down occurred, she was talking to the LEO. Whether he intercepted her or not is a good question, but to me, it appears he said something to her and she went over to find out what.

The times she attempted to leave the checkpoint, she was stopped by the STSO and called back to the area just outside the pat-down area.

Of course I can believe she was upset, she just had an encounter with a LEO using what appeared to be overly agressive intimidation tactics when they were not needed, an STSO 'pat-down' of her daughter just to fly on an airplane, her first amendment rights violated by the LEO multiple times, etc. I can (and hope that you could) empathize with her.

I'm curious as to what grounds an STSO can use to tell someone to leave the airport. (I can give a little more leeway on the screening area itself, but it would tend to be very specific situations - i.e. loitering.)

When the mother was attempting to leave the checkpoint, she was stopped by the STSO multiple times, and (for unknown reasons) apparently was told she had to leave "the airport". This placed her in a situation which would require her to leave her daughter alone in the airport. If she had cleared screening (she did have her purse with her in the screening area), then why would she need to leave the airport?

You note the STSO "prevailed upon the LEOs to intervene". Not sure that's an accurate position to take, but let's run with it. Usually when you are told to leave an area and refuse, you are charged with trespassing. I know it's speculative, but what's your opinion on why she was charged with disorderly conduct (and not trespassing) if she was asked to leave?

This is where we will probably have to agree to disagree. The mother attempted to "simply walk away" and leave the checkpoint more than once and was called back by the STSO. Should she have "simply walked away" with her daughter towards the gate? With the STSO calling her back, wouldn't ignoring her lead to her being arrested (charge?) or require a dump of the sterile area? It was after she was called back that the STSO told her to "leave the airport" (with what appears to be the FSD's approval). [Again, unclear on what grounds she was using to tell her to leave.]

Now, if we take a different approach -- If the STSO had let the mother leave the checkpoint with the daughter when they tried after being screened, then little, if anything, would have been heard about this incident. To me, and yes I know it's my opinion and interpretation, that places the escalation to the arrest just about solely on the STSO. (She did have a few accomplices.)

knotyeagle

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/08/01/v-p...s-in-tenn.html

This story is taken from Sacbee / ... / Top Stories / Wire Nation/World / Wire National News


Woman to fight charges in Tenn. airport pat-down
Associated Press

PUBLISHED MONDAY, AUG. 01, 2011


NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- A Tennessee woman charged with disorderly conduct after a dispute over a security screening at the Nashville airport plans to fight the charges.

Andrea Abbott, 41, was arrested last month after airport police said she was belligerent, refusing a body scan and then a pat-down for herself and her 14-year-old daughter, whom she was accompanying to the gate for a flight to Baltimore.

The Clarksville woman eventually allowed her daughter to be screened but then walked away, refusing herself to be patted down. When she was told to return she cursed and told officers, "I'm done with you people," according to a police report.

Defense attorney Brent Horst said in an interview Monday that he feels Abbott did nothing illegal and believes the officer violated her First Amendment right to freely express her opinion about the screening.

He quoted from the arrest report in which Officer Jeffery Nolen wrote, "Ms. Abbott was loud in her speech and very belligerent" before her arrest.

"He arrested her because she just wanted to argue with him, and that is just not a crime," Horst said.

Airport spokeswoman Emily Richard issued a statement defending Nolen's actions.

"Ms. Abbott refused to be screened and was verbally abusive. The Airport Authority's Department of Public Safety followed its procedures and tried to work with Ms. Abbott, who was not cooperative and subsequently arrested for disorderly conduct," the statement said.

A local court hearing on the charge initially scheduled for Monday was carried over to Oct. 13.


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nachtnebel

five gets you ten those turds dismiss the charges. I hope she pursues a civil suit against those people.

Wally Bird

Michael El

Hum............His report says she was verbally abusive, but he doesn't state exactly what she said that was verbally abusive.