Foreign exchange rates discussion [FOREX]--all cards
Feb 15, 2015, 8:06 pm
#17
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: New Orleans/South Korea
Programs: SPG Plat97, AA PLT, Delta SM
Posts: 177
Well, wanted to test this out and I think I can be of help here in this thread. I usually load 100,000 KRW (about $95 USD) at Starbucks here in South Korea every few weeks. Today, I decided to load 30,000 KRW from each of my 4 no FTF credit cards. The credit cards I used are:
Chase Sapphire Preferred (Visa)
Barclays US Air (Mastercard)
Capital One Spark (Visa)
Capital One Quicksilver One (Mastercard)
I handed the 4 credit cards to the cashier all at once and she charged 30,000 KRW on each of the credit cards in succession after that. I'll post the results here in 3 days after the charges post (since it can change while pending).
Chase Sapphire Preferred (Visa)
Barclays US Air (Mastercard)
Capital One Spark (Visa)
Capital One Quicksilver One (Mastercard)
I handed the 4 credit cards to the cashier all at once and she charged 30,000 KRW on each of the credit cards in succession after that. I'll post the results here in 3 days after the charges post (since it can change while pending).
Last edited by luna6; Feb 15, 2015 at 9:30 pm
Feb 16, 2015, 5:53 am
#18
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: AA Exec Plat, Hilton Diamond, Citi-Prestige,
Posts: 131
Well, wanted to test this out and I think I can be of help here in this thread. I usually load 100,000 KRW (about $95 USD) at Starbucks here in South Korea every few weeks. Today, I decided to load 30,000 KRW from each of my 4 no FTF credit cards. The credit cards I used are:
Chase Sapphire Preferred (Visa)
Barclays US Air (Mastercard)
Capital One Spark (Visa)
Capital One Quicksilver One (Mastercard)
I handed the 4 credit cards to the cashier all at once and she charged 30,000 KRW on each of the credit cards in succession after that. I'll post the results here in 3 days after the charges post (since it can change while pending).
Chase Sapphire Preferred (Visa)
Barclays US Air (Mastercard)
Capital One Spark (Visa)
Capital One Quicksilver One (Mastercard)
I handed the 4 credit cards to the cashier all at once and she charged 30,000 KRW on each of the credit cards in succession after that. I'll post the results here in 3 days after the charges post (since it can change while pending).
Cool
Feb 16, 2015, 10:42 am
#19
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 465
1. The date of purchase is irrelevant. Transactions are always priced when posted, but the rate used is not necessarily the rate established on the posting date. Read your card agreement to see what they use.
2. When you use a card denominated in USD to make a purchase in another currency you are instructing the issuer to purchase that currency on your behalf. You need to look at purchase rates, not fictitious mid-market rates which represent an average of buying and selling rates at an arbitrary time. (It is well established that the published daily fixes were illegally manipulated.) Foreign exchange markets never close, the transaction network can price whenever they choose, and I would expect them to do this in a way which maximizes their profit. I would like to think that competition between MasterCard and VISA would create an incentive for one to offer better rates than the other, but this has little marketing value for consumer cards because they cannot demonstrate a savings that is meaningful for individuals. It could be useful for wooing corporate clients.
3. If you think you have evidence that Chase is adding an undisclosed foreign transaction fee don't write about it here. Hire a lawyer because they are violating a binding explicit antitrust agreement not to do this.
2. When you use a card denominated in USD to make a purchase in another currency you are instructing the issuer to purchase that currency on your behalf. You need to look at purchase rates, not fictitious mid-market rates which represent an average of buying and selling rates at an arbitrary time. (It is well established that the published daily fixes were illegally manipulated.) Foreign exchange markets never close, the transaction network can price whenever they choose, and I would expect them to do this in a way which maximizes their profit. I would like to think that competition between MasterCard and VISA would create an incentive for one to offer better rates than the other, but this has little marketing value for consumer cards because they cannot demonstrate a savings that is meaningful for individuals. It could be useful for wooing corporate clients.
3. If you think you have evidence that Chase is adding an undisclosed foreign transaction fee don't write about it here. Hire a lawyer because they are violating a binding explicit antitrust agreement not to do this.
Feb 17, 2015, 4:41 pm
#20
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: DFW
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold, Admirals Club, Global Entry
Posts: 1,141
I look forward to Luna6's update. In the meantime, investment professionals in the group will have already noticed Visa's disclosure that "[t]he selected rate may vary from the rate Visa receives."
I'd also have the same question on the ATM side were it not for the fact that, if memory serves, BofA charges me 3%; Chase 1%; and Citi 0% -- a separate topic from the Forex rate itself, obviously.
I'd also have the same question on the ATM side were it not for the fact that, if memory serves, BofA charges me 3%; Chase 1%; and Citi 0% -- a separate topic from the Forex rate itself, obviously.
Feb 17, 2015, 9:59 pm
#21
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Scottsdale, Az.
Programs: US Gold & AA Lifetime Gold
Posts: 216
I finally had a chance to compare the conversion rates here in Mexico with my Chase Saphire Preferred and my Barclay US Air MC. They were the same. My iPhone app showed the current rate at 14.9 pesos to the dollar. I got 14.85 to 1 on both cards.
Feb 18, 2015, 3:35 pm
#22
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 378
Citi issues cards on three networks Here is Citi's explanation of how each network calculates exchange rates. Note that no network makes the conversion based on the transaction date. It is always tied to the posting date. See if there is a basis to choose one over another based on the processes rather than anecdotal reports or vague generalizations.
MasterCard specifies the date and the rate.
Amex also specifies the date and picks the rate that is highest. So worse than MC.
Visa only specifies range of dates and range of rates. No wonder it comes out the worst.
Feb 18, 2015, 4:54 pm
#23
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: IAH
Posts: 362
Right here you just confirm what is the anecdotal evidence in this thread:
MasterCard specifies the date and the rate.
Amex also specifies the date and picks the rate that is highest. So worse than MC.
Visa only specifies range of dates and range of rates. No wonder it comes out the worst.
MasterCard specifies the date and the rate.
Amex also specifies the date and picks the rate that is highest. So worse than MC.
Visa only specifies range of dates and range of rates. No wonder it comes out the worst.
Feb 18, 2015, 5:19 pm
#24
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,957
International regulators struggling to rein in the $5 trillion-a-day global foreign exchange market are finally finding some support from asset managers warming to the idea of moving more trading onto exchanges. The juggernaut forex market operates 24 hours a day across all time zones,
Feb 21, 2015, 9:33 am
#26
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: New Orleans/South Korea
Programs: SPG Plat97, AA PLT, Delta SM
Posts: 177
still waiting to post the results from 4 charges at Starbucks. The charges were all in pending transactions for 3 days then vanished from all 4 cards. Starbucks does that sometimes here, but it'll post in the coming days.
Feb 21, 2015, 11:28 am
#27
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,957
Nonetheless, on the days when the markets are open the transaction networks can buy and sell currency at any time, and comparing their rates to the so-called "mid-market" rates, which are based on an arbitrary daily fix, is not particularly useful. Even less useful now that we know that the fixes were, apparently, manipulated.
Feb 24, 2015, 12:43 am
#28
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: New Orleans/South Korea
Programs: SPG Plat97, AA PLT, Delta SM
Posts: 177
My 4 charges of 30,000 KRW at Starbucks finally posted a week later. Starbucks is weird in how they process credit cards here in South Korea. My charges were in pending for about 3 days then disappeared for about another 3 days, before finally appearing as a posted charge. This makes it a little uncertain what date the forex transaction is based on, but the results do show that the banks that claim "no foreign transaction fees" really don't charge anything extra since different banks had same charges based on whether they used Visa or Mastercard. The posted charges were:
Chase Sapphire Preferred (Visa) $27.05
Barclays US Air (Mastercard) $27.04
Capital One Spark (Visa) $27.05
Capital One Quicksilver One (Mastercard) $27.04
Chase Sapphire Preferred (Visa) $27.05
Barclays US Air (Mastercard) $27.04
Capital One Spark (Visa) $27.05
Capital One Quicksilver One (Mastercard) $27.04
Feb 24, 2015, 12:54 am
#29
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 581
My 4 charges of 30,000 KRW at Starbucks finally posted a week later. Starbucks is weird in how they process credit cards here in South Korea. My charges were in pending for about 3 days then disappeared for about another 3 days, before finally appearing as a posted charge. This makes it a little uncertain what date the forex transaction is based on, but the results do show that the banks that claim "no foreign transaction fees" really don't charge anything extra since different banks had same charges based on whether they used Visa or Mastercard. The posted charges were:
Chase Sapphire Preferred (Visa) $27.05
Barclays US Air (Mastercard) $27.04
Capital One Spark (Visa) $27.05
Capital One Quicksilver One (Mastercard) $27.04
Chase Sapphire Preferred (Visa) $27.05
Barclays US Air (Mastercard) $27.04
Capital One Spark (Visa) $27.05
Capital One Quicksilver One (Mastercard) $27.04
Feb 24, 2015, 1:12 am
#30
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 257
My 4 charges of 30,000 KRW at Starbucks finally posted a week later. Starbucks is weird in how they process credit cards here in South Korea. My charges were in pending for about 3 days then disappeared for about another 3 days, before finally appearing as a posted charge. This makes it a little uncertain what date the forex transaction is based on, but the results do show that the banks that claim "no foreign transaction fees" really don't charge anything extra since different banks had same charges based on whether they used Visa or Mastercard. The posted charges were:
Chase Sapphire Preferred (Visa) $27.05
Barclays US Air (Mastercard) $27.04
Capital One Spark (Visa) $27.05
Capital One Quicksilver One (Mastercard) $27.04
Chase Sapphire Preferred (Visa) $27.05
Barclays US Air (Mastercard) $27.04
Capital One Spark (Visa) $27.05
Capital One Quicksilver One (Mastercard) $27.04
I believe exact posting date/exchange rates (at least for Capital One) can be found on the end-of-month card statements.
Though what I've started doing recently is checking the published VISA exchange rates myself here: http://usa.visa.com/personal/card-be...calculator.jsp and then verifying that the transaction that posts matches the published rate. Have had no issues thus far.
The only issue seems to be when market rates experience a sudden movement, in which case the Visa published rate takes a couple of days to move in sync. I'm guessing this is because they're using some sort of an average in their calculation.
There's a similar website for Mastercard (https://www.mastercard.com/global/currencyconversion/) although it always seems a day behind.
Last edited by shinjukuflyer; Feb 24, 2015 at 5:39 pm Reason: Fixed link