Cathay Pacific versus Singapore Airlines. Which is best for Frequent Flyers?
Sep 18, 2014, 9:47 pm
#31
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NYC/SIN
Programs: CX DM, SQ KF
Posts: 2,177
Indeed 
I actually have been meaning to post to see if any SIN-based flyers want to start a credit card booking pool so that when ANZ (for instance) is the promo fare of the day, we can all take advantage. I figure we need OCBC, ANZ, DBS and HSBC and we'll be able to take advantage of the CX ex-SIN promo fares 90+% of the time
(CX credit card promo fares do NOT generally require the card holder to travel, nor do they require the credit card to be shown at check-in, if purchased online by MPC members, so this works quite well)
I actually have been meaning to post to see if any SIN-based flyers want to start a credit card booking pool so that when ANZ (for instance) is the promo fare of the day, we can all take advantage. I figure we need OCBC, ANZ, DBS and HSBC and we'll be able to take advantage of the CX ex-SIN promo fares 90+% of the time
(CX credit card promo fares do NOT generally require the card holder to travel, nor do they require the credit card to be shown at check-in, if purchased online by MPC members, so this works quite well)
BTW on the card promos, realized that all the promos have the exact same fare - except for the getaway surprise. So right now fares under DBS Insignia/Treasures, HSBC VI/Premier, ANZ, BOC, Maybank are all the same.
Happy to help (have ANZ/DBS/Citi/UOB but the limits on all but UOB arent too massive).
Sep 19, 2014, 4:11 am
#32
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 267
regional / long haul is not based on geographical location- it is based on hours flown.
CX has effectively classified all flights over 4 hours as mid-haul so they get long haul cabins.
SQ could easily do the same but chooses not to so for flights 4-8 hours the SQ product is CRAP - do not blame geography this is just an area where SQ is behind...
CX has effectively classified all flights over 4 hours as mid-haul so they get long haul cabins.
SQ could easily do the same but chooses not to so for flights 4-8 hours the SQ product is CRAP - do not blame geography this is just an area where SQ is behind...
SQ's A330/A380/77W Y products are just as good, if not better than CX's 33G/343/77G/77H offerings.
On a pure medium/long-haul basis, I actually think there's another plus to SQ's FFP as upgrades from economy to business are still possible whereas with CX, mileage upgrades from Y to J isn't possible due to the existence of W.
Of course add in J to the discussion, then SQ's A330 config definitely is subpar to the CX 33G, but then we also then need to re-evaluate this whole FFP value discussion again because it brings PPS into play.
On a pure Y basis, just can't see how anyone can argue that either CX's or SQ's Y is so much better than the other that it gives one carrier a huge advantage in the hard product.
Last edited by mitwg; Sep 19, 2014 at 4:19 am Reason: Grammar
Sep 19, 2014, 7:04 am
#33
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: KMQ
Programs: JMB Diamond,NH Diamond, Marriott Lifetime Titanium Elite, IHG Royal Ambassador Spire,
Posts: 363
CX by a mile. I fly to TYO regularly on my own account in J. With SQ I would pay 4KS$ plus . With CX with a promo CC I pay S$2750. The service on CX is miles better especially as a DM. Yes CX is not always perfect but neither is SQ. And yes this week to TYO I was 77W from SIN to HKG and then 747 to HND. Tomorrow 747 back to HKG and then 33G to SIN. Ok I know its not always like that and it could even get swapped tomorrow!…but really the service on CX is always good. The SIN based crew are consistently excellent.I am also upgraded to F when available on a good number of times and even from HKG to LHR with the wife. Willie Walsh also in the cabin perhaps learning about a proper F product
Last edited by jackrussellterrier; Sep 19, 2014 at 7:11 am
Sep 19, 2014, 8:15 pm
#34
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX DM
Posts: 1,140
I second all your points, which is why I stayed DM all through my 4 years in SIN. The more interesting thing is that I had expected to switch to SQ, but didn't in large part because of co. travel policies that forced me to pick cheaper airfares - so I ended up on CX a lot more often than I expected on US routes, with occasional SQ flights when they had special offers.
Sep 19, 2014, 8:27 pm
#35
formerly gemini573
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: LAX, HKG, and BKK
Programs: CX Emerald, WOH Globalist, Marriott Platinum, AA Lifetime Platinum, Virtuoso, Prive, STEPS, STARS
Posts: 2,233
I
Lastly, one thing that that is a plus for the KF program is the ability to do Y -> J upgrades with miles. Its not great value in terms of miles spent, but I feel it is much more accessible than CX Y -> J upgrades due to two reason:
-No PE so you can upgrade straight from Y -> J (obviously not a huge issue for CX intra-Asia flights however)
-There's less difference between the super saver Y fares vs. upgradable Y fares, unlike CX where the difference is larger
.
Lastly, one thing that that is a plus for the KF program is the ability to do Y -> J upgrades with miles. Its not great value in terms of miles spent, but I feel it is much more accessible than CX Y -> J upgrades due to two reason:
-No PE so you can upgrade straight from Y -> J (obviously not a huge issue for CX intra-Asia flights however)
-There's less difference between the super saver Y fares vs. upgradable Y fares, unlike CX where the difference is larger
.
I heard SQ will introduce a Y+ next year? There will certainly be a retooling of the KF redemption once it's introduced.
Sep 19, 2014, 9:22 pm
#36
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NYC/SIN
Programs: CX DM, SQ KF
Posts: 2,177
Ok -this is exSIN specific, so perhaps OT, but figured still a comparison point between the 2 airlines..
So both airlines have buggy websites, but SQ's has been in that form for a while now.
I tried to make a credit card specific promotional fare booking exSIN last night (friday) on a new ANZ card that I have. It was a V class are not available under any of the many other card related promos that they are currently running (and also unbookable in that fareclass without the promo).
I kept getting an invalid card error on the CX website, perhaps due to a system upgrade at ANZ's end (who were, btw, unreachabale for the most part).
Figured that I was SOL, given this was a SIN specific card promotion and their SIN reservations line was closed till monday.
Ended up calling CX's HK call centre on a whim (the 'international access no' had a real poor connection, though I think its all the same call centre) and guess what?
Not only did they get me the exact same fare, I was met with a 'no problem lah' (think she was trying to just be endearing to a SIN based customer) when I asked if I could pay with a different credit card (not ANZ). Only thing being that they had to charge in HKD, which I was fine with.
This was the normal reservations line - not the MPC line for DMs. All sorted in a 14min call, including hold times.
Willing to bet the bottom dollar that a similar thing with SQ would have been unsolvable.
Point of the long story being that, CX has a definite "get it done" attitude, wheras SQ's is a lot more "I need to check the rules", "Oh, but we cant do that" or more likely "Sorry Canno" .
Myself, and I recall that KACommuter too have had a fair few frustrating experiences with SQ - be it standing by on earlier flights, or asking for something out of the box in case of irrops.
South Asian descent folks would know the word 'jugaad' - akin to a 'hack'. Perhaps its a HKG vs SIN thing, but CX's DNA is much better in getting things done in my experience.
So both airlines have buggy websites, but SQ's has been in that form for a while now.
I tried to make a credit card specific promotional fare booking exSIN last night (friday) on a new ANZ card that I have. It was a V class are not available under any of the many other card related promos that they are currently running (and also unbookable in that fareclass without the promo).
I kept getting an invalid card error on the CX website, perhaps due to a system upgrade at ANZ's end (who were, btw, unreachabale for the most part).
Figured that I was SOL, given this was a SIN specific card promotion and their SIN reservations line was closed till monday.
Ended up calling CX's HK call centre on a whim (the 'international access no' had a real poor connection, though I think its all the same call centre) and guess what?
Not only did they get me the exact same fare, I was met with a 'no problem lah' (think she was trying to just be endearing to a SIN based customer) when I asked if I could pay with a different credit card (not ANZ). Only thing being that they had to charge in HKD, which I was fine with.
This was the normal reservations line - not the MPC line for DMs. All sorted in a 14min call, including hold times.
Willing to bet the bottom dollar that a similar thing with SQ would have been unsolvable.
Point of the long story being that, CX has a definite "get it done" attitude, wheras SQ's is a lot more "I need to check the rules", "Oh, but we cant do that" or more likely "Sorry Canno" .
Myself, and I recall that KACommuter too have had a fair few frustrating experiences with SQ - be it standing by on earlier flights, or asking for something out of the box in case of irrops.
South Asian descent folks would know the word 'jugaad' - akin to a 'hack'. Perhaps its a HKG vs SIN thing, but CX's DNA is much better in getting things done in my experience.
Sep 20, 2014, 2:28 am
#37
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 267
Sep 20, 2014, 4:17 am
#38
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX DM
Posts: 1,140
- clearly better food in SQ
- better earn/burn ratios as a KF elite as long as you redeem in Y
- slightly better entertainment in SQ
- SQ seats same as new CX seats, but more consistent through the fleet
- CX always blocks the seat next to me if it is possible
- CX provides me with a bottle of water
- CX often upgrades me, SQ never
- CX guarantees seats with 24 hours notice
On the ground:
- CX wins the check-in contest hands down
- ...and the lounge contest too
Management of hiccups/snafus that are not in the manual is like a 100m race between Usain Bolt (CX) and someone with a limp and flat feet (SQ).
So I usually tell people who are moderate mileage travellers to stick with SQ, as the odds of ground crew having to deal with unexpected problems are low. That way they get a pretty good experience in the air, and odds of suffering the "I need to check with the supervisor" are also low. They will also not accumulate the mileage to make CX Gold or Diamond - and unfortunately the better soft product in CX starts at Gold.
Sep 20, 2014, 9:51 am
#39
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 267
Is the CX lounge situation that much better than people say it is though?
Comparing HKG CX vs. SIN SQ (as KF E) yeah sure... In fact, I can't remember the last time I've ever been to the KF G lounge.
But really... Are people forgetting that CX also has the Skyview lounge while you are at SIN? Sure there's the excellent QF lounge now but its not open all day.
Don't get me wrong, I'd rather much go to the J Wing/Bridge then the J side of SKL but I don't think the lounge situation is as bad for SQ as it sounds, if you consider what CX actually offers at SIN.
And if we were to include the QF lounges and whatever else, again, this is another ball game because there's got to be another airport where Star is way ahead of Oneworld (I can think of one straight away at IST).
Comparing HKG CX vs. SIN SQ (as KF E) yeah sure... In fact, I can't remember the last time I've ever been to the KF G lounge.
But really... Are people forgetting that CX also has the Skyview lounge while you are at SIN? Sure there's the excellent QF lounge now but its not open all day.
Don't get me wrong, I'd rather much go to the J Wing/Bridge then the J side of SKL but I don't think the lounge situation is as bad for SQ as it sounds, if you consider what CX actually offers at SIN.
And if we were to include the QF lounges and whatever else, again, this is another ball game because there's got to be another airport where Star is way ahead of Oneworld (I can think of one straight away at IST).
Sep 20, 2014, 10:51 am
#40
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NYC/SIN
Programs: CX DM, SQ KF
Posts: 2,177
mitwg - fair-ish points, but CX gives lounge access to Silvers in Y, while SQ keeps even their golds away..overall a win to CX in my book.
And it gets better - like, as a DM, having access to all CX lounges, irrespective of the carrier. Skyview is c#@p, but about the only time i use it is when I need a a quick shower before an Air Asia/ Jetstar flight..QF at other times.
And it gets better - like, as a DM, having access to all CX lounges, irrespective of the carrier. Skyview is c#@p, but about the only time i use it is when I need a a quick shower before an Air Asia/ Jetstar flight..QF at other times.
Sep 21, 2014, 5:01 am
#41
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: SIN
Programs: TK-G | Accor P | SQ-G | Marriott T
Posts: 3,831
Is the CX lounge situation that much better than people say it is though?
Comparing HKG CX vs. SIN SQ (as KF E) yeah sure... In fact, I can't remember the last time I've ever been to the KF G lounge.
But really... Are people forgetting that CX also has the Skyview lounge while you are at SIN? Sure there's the excellent QF lounge now but its not open all day.
Don't get me wrong, I'd rather much go to the J Wing/Bridge then the J side of SKL but I don't think the lounge situation is as bad for SQ as it sounds, if you consider what CX actually offers at SIN.
And if we were to include the QF lounges and whatever else, again, this is another ball game because there's got to be another airport where Star is way ahead of Oneworld (I can think of one straight away at IST).
Comparing HKG CX vs. SIN SQ (as KF E) yeah sure... In fact, I can't remember the last time I've ever been to the KF G lounge.
But really... Are people forgetting that CX also has the Skyview lounge while you are at SIN? Sure there's the excellent QF lounge now but its not open all day.
Don't get me wrong, I'd rather much go to the J Wing/Bridge then the J side of SKL but I don't think the lounge situation is as bad for SQ as it sounds, if you consider what CX actually offers at SIN.
And if we were to include the QF lounges and whatever else, again, this is another ball game because there's got to be another airport where Star is way ahead of Oneworld (I can think of one straight away at IST).
Seriously, I think Skyview offers better food than KF E Gold lounge in SIN.
At least the OJ is back at night time now.
Sep 21, 2014, 5:11 am
#42
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: SIN
Programs: TK-G | Accor P | SQ-G | Marriott T
Posts: 3,831
regional / long haul is not based on geographical location- it is based on hours flown.
CX has effectively classified all flights over 4 hours as mid-haul so they get long haul cabins.
SQ could easily do the same but chooses not to so for flights 4-8 hours the SQ product is CRAP - do not blame geography this is just an area where SQ is behind...
CX has effectively classified all flights over 4 hours as mid-haul so they get long haul cabins.
SQ could easily do the same but chooses not to so for flights 4-8 hours the SQ product is CRAP - do not blame geography this is just an area where SQ is behind...
As far as I know the only "crap" aircraft SQ has is its B772. Some of B772 have AVOD in economy. There are still few aircrafts that still have non AVOD on B772, I was on one in DPS and CGK route.
I am not surprise if SQ uses this aircraft also to sub-Indian continent which probably SQ is unchallenged even they use the lousiest aircraft.
Other destination that I know like ICN, TPE, Japan route are mostly on A330 or 77W or even A380 which are very good product.
Well at least SQ does not have a plane that does not even have AVOD and has remote on the arm rest in biz class like CX 772.
I am not trying to defend SQ but just stating the fact.
Sep 21, 2014, 5:35 am
#43
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: BA Gold, JGC Sapphire, OZ Diamond, AF Silver, CX GR, Marriott Lifetime SL
Posts: 3,598
IMO comparing CX 772 vs SQ 772 is not really "fair" as SQ ones are 772ER (or derated ER) that comes out the factory much later
Last edited by ChrisLi; Sep 21, 2014 at 11:36 pm Reason: Fix typo
Sep 21, 2014, 9:29 pm
#44
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX DM
Posts: 1,140
As a KF Gold and CX Diamond member, my view of Y in the air is that:
- clearly better food in SQ
- better earn/burn ratios as a KF elite as long as you redeem in Y
- slightly better entertainment in SQ
- SQ seats same as new CX seats, but more consistent through the fleet
- CX always blocks the seat next to me if it is possible
- CX provides me with a bottle of water
- CX often upgrades me, SQ never
.
- clearly better food in SQ
- better earn/burn ratios as a KF elite as long as you redeem in Y
- slightly better entertainment in SQ
- SQ seats same as new CX seats, but more consistent through the fleet
- CX always blocks the seat next to me if it is possible
- CX provides me with a bottle of water
- CX often upgrades me, SQ never
.
Sep 21, 2014, 9:50 pm
#45
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NYC/SIN
Programs: CX DM, SQ KF
Posts: 2,177
Cathay Pacific versus Singapore Airlines. Which is best for Frequent Flyers?
Ha! Am certain that the no of opups that I as a DM receive on CX is more than the number that my entire circle (including a few PPS members) gets on SQ. And mine include a lot of J->F ones.