May 27, 2017, 8:25 am
Last edit by: NWIFlyer
All IT systems are back up and running and BA are operating normal flight schedules.
PLEASE ASK ALL COMPENSATION RELATED QUESTIONS IN THE DEDICATED TOPIC: The 2017 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation 261/2004. The full list of cancelled and delayed flights for Sunday is to be found here, though note that it is the arrival time that matters for delays.
Successful (or otherwise) reports for claims where the information would be of use to others would, however, be very welcome in this thread.
Monday flight cancellations for LHR listed here. Services to and from LGW, LCY and STN seem to be working more or less on time.. Telephone numbers for rebooking are in this post, note also the difference between what contact centres and airport staff can do, noted here.
Updated 29/05/2017 22:50 (UK time) Link to BA updates: https://www.britishairways.com/trave...VINF4more_news
Baggage
There are a significant number of bags at Heathrow which we will be reuniting with customers via couriers as soon as we can. This will be done free of charge. Please help us to get these to you as quickly as possible by ensuring we have your latest contact details by filing a delayed bag report.
If your journey was disrupted -
Because of the scale of the disruption, most passengers should expect to make their own arrangements to mitigate the disruption as BA will not have resources to assist all passengers. BA have a duty of care under EU Regulation 261/2004 and according to this letter handed out at Gatwick the following costs would usually be claimable from BA.
If an overnight stay is required
Although BA has suggested some guideline costs for duty of care, EU Regulation 261/2004 doesn't specify any monetary cap. By documenting (take a screen capture of a hotel comparison site for example) that there were no cheaper alternatives, it is possible that claims exceeding the guideline costs suggested by BA may be met. Expenses not covered by BA may be claimable from your travel insurance subject to possible policy excesses.
Duty of care is separate from fixed sum compensation (EUR 250 to 600 depending on the flight distance) for flight delays/cancellations, which may or may not be payable under EU Regulation 261/2004 depending on whether BA can show that the flight delay was caused by 'extraordinary circumstances' and that it took 'all reasonable measures' to avoid the resulting delay. Also, airlines do not usually entertain claims for consequential losses (for example, the cost of prepaid accomodation which you can't now use), so you would need to look to your travel insurance for these costs.
EU Regulation 261/2004 does not cover delayed/damaged/lost baggage. The Montreal Convention sets an upper limit for delayed/damaged/lost baggage compensation. For more information, visit the BA.com webpage on delayed/damaged/lost baggage.
You can read the forum thread for guidance on EU Regulation 261/2004 or check back on these forums later for more advice on claiming, but first of all look after yourself during this disruption.
Claiming expenses incurred during the disruption
https://disruptionclaim.britishairways.com/
Historic update as of 18:55 on Saturday
All BA flights from LHR and LGW are cancelled for the remainder of the day (Saturday 27th May). This is due to a major systems outage of most of BA's computer systems. The original cause of the outage was a power failure from which BA has found it difficult to recover.
Because Call Centre systems are also down, and their own web pages may be affected, BA is encouraging affected customer to seek updates via BA Twitter feed and Facebook page.
Alex Cruz has indicated that those passengers who no longer wish to fly with BA on their booking for today will be "fast tracked" for refunds. However, no mechanism for this has yet been communicated (7pm Saturday). Again affected customers are asked to follow the relevant Twitter and Facebook communication channels.
There are reportedly long delays leaving the airport with some customers claiming delays of many hours.
PLEASE ASK ALL COMPENSATION RELATED QUESTIONS IN THE DEDICATED TOPIC: The 2017 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation 261/2004. The full list of cancelled and delayed flights for Sunday is to be found here, though note that it is the arrival time that matters for delays.
Successful (or otherwise) reports for claims where the information would be of use to others would, however, be very welcome in this thread.
Monday flight cancellations for LHR listed here. Services to and from LGW, LCY and STN seem to be working more or less on time.. Telephone numbers for rebooking are in this post, note also the difference between what contact centres and airport staff can do, noted here.
Updated 29/05/2017 22:50 (UK time) Link to BA updates: https://www.britishairways.com/trave...VINF4more_news
Baggage
There are a significant number of bags at Heathrow which we will be reuniting with customers via couriers as soon as we can. This will be done free of charge. Please help us to get these to you as quickly as possible by ensuring we have your latest contact details by filing a delayed bag report.
If your journey was disrupted -
Because of the scale of the disruption, most passengers should expect to make their own arrangements to mitigate the disruption as BA will not have resources to assist all passengers. BA have a duty of care under EU Regulation 261/2004 and according to this letter handed out at Gatwick the following costs would usually be claimable from BA.
- £25 for reasonable meal/refeshment expenses (per adult per day)
- 2 reasonable phone calls per customer
If an overnight stay is required
- £200 for a hotel room (for 2 people)
- £50 Transport to/from the airport (round trip)
Although BA has suggested some guideline costs for duty of care, EU Regulation 261/2004 doesn't specify any monetary cap. By documenting (take a screen capture of a hotel comparison site for example) that there were no cheaper alternatives, it is possible that claims exceeding the guideline costs suggested by BA may be met. Expenses not covered by BA may be claimable from your travel insurance subject to possible policy excesses.
Duty of care is separate from fixed sum compensation (EUR 250 to 600 depending on the flight distance) for flight delays/cancellations, which may or may not be payable under EU Regulation 261/2004 depending on whether BA can show that the flight delay was caused by 'extraordinary circumstances' and that it took 'all reasonable measures' to avoid the resulting delay. Also, airlines do not usually entertain claims for consequential losses (for example, the cost of prepaid accomodation which you can't now use), so you would need to look to your travel insurance for these costs.
EU Regulation 261/2004 does not cover delayed/damaged/lost baggage. The Montreal Convention sets an upper limit for delayed/damaged/lost baggage compensation. For more information, visit the BA.com webpage on delayed/damaged/lost baggage.
You can read the forum thread for guidance on EU Regulation 261/2004 or check back on these forums later for more advice on claiming, but first of all look after yourself during this disruption.
Claiming expenses incurred during the disruption
https://disruptionclaim.britishairways.com/
Historic update as of 18:55 on Saturday
All BA flights from LHR and LGW are cancelled for the remainder of the day (Saturday 27th May). This is due to a major systems outage of most of BA's computer systems. The original cause of the outage was a power failure from which BA has found it difficult to recover.
Because Call Centre systems are also down, and their own web pages may be affected, BA is encouraging affected customer to seek updates via BA Twitter feed and Facebook page.
Alex Cruz has indicated that those passengers who no longer wish to fly with BA on their booking for today will be "fast tracked" for refunds. However, no mechanism for this has yet been communicated (7pm Saturday). Again affected customers are asked to follow the relevant Twitter and Facebook communication channels.
There are reportedly long delays leaving the airport with some customers claiming delays of many hours.
27 May 'worldwide' BA IT outage | practical assistance/advice [Clutter-free please]
Jun 1, 2017, 8:28 am
#1186
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold, LH Sen, MUCCI, Junior Jet Club.
Posts: 8,101
BA's attempts to weasel out of its compensation obligations has hit the press:
British Airways embroiled in travel insurance row
Industry body accuses airline of providing wrong information and complicating claims
British Airways’ IT outage affected 75,000 passengers worldwide
British Airways passengers attempting to claim compensation for their bank holiday travel disruption face further chaos as the airline battles with insurance companies over who is liable to pick up the bill.
In the aftermath of the computer systems outage, which affected 75,000 passengers worldwide, the airline promised to compensate customers who had incurred “disruption expenses” including the cost of hotels, meals and phone calls.
This is on top of the EU compensation worth up to €600 per passenger for delayed or cancelled flights.
However, BA customers attempting to claim for non-flight related expenses online are being told to claim on their travel insurance in the first instance.
This has prompted fury from consumer campaigners, who say this could leave them out of pocket if they have an excess on their policy.
Before they can enter any details of their claim, BA’s online compensation form asks customers if they had travel insurance for the disrupted journey.
If the passenger answers Yes, BA then asks if they have claimed, or intend to make a claim, on their travel insurance.
The compensation form on Bitish Airways’ site
If the passenger answers No, the BA website prompts: “You should make a claim with your travel insurer in the first instance.
“If you have expenses that either you were not successful in claiming or which are not covered by your policy, you may claim for only these expenses in the form below.”
BA’s website does not make it clear if the airline will refund the cost of any excess on passengers’ travel insurance policies.
BA flight chaos: how to get compensation
The FT’s Claer Barrett, BBC Money Box presenter Paul Lewis and guests discuss the travel disruption
This has prompted a complaint from the Association of British Insurers, the industry trade group, which accused the airline of giving passengers the wrong information and complicating the claims process.
“Any cover available under travel insurance will usually kick in only if compensation is not available from any other source,” the ABI told the Financial Times.
“Those affected should seek compensation, and any refunds of expenses, in the first instance from British Airways.
“People affected by the disruption should be able to claim compensation and refunds for any expenses as simply as possible, not being passed from pillar to post. EU flight compensation regulations set out that airline operators should provide compensation to passengers that suffer long delays or cancellations.”
The ABI requested that BA change the wording and structure of its online claim form to reflect this, although the airline has yet to do so.
BA said: “We will update the wording on the claims page of ba.com to give our customers as much information as possible.
“We are very sorry for the frustration customers are experiencing and understand the difficulties they are facing.
BA’s computer meltdown: how did it happen?
Systems and electricity experts sceptical of airline’s explanation of events
“We will fully honour our obligations and would encourage customers to submit their expense claims to us, and we will investigate on a case-by-case basis. We have put additional resource into our call centres, and online customer relations teams to resolve these claims as quickly as possible.”
The company added that customers who were unable to be re-routed by BA and rebooked with other airlines would also be eligible to make a claim.
On the issue of reclaiming insurance excess payments, BA said it would encourage customers to submit claims “for any reasonable expenses they have incurred”.
“BA are making it as difficult as they possibly can so that fewer people will claim,” said Helen Dewdney, author of the Complaining Cow website and blog. “It looks like they’re trying to get back every penny they possibly can.”
The total compensation bill the airline is facing could be as high as €100m, analysts estimate.
British Airways embroiled in travel insurance row
Industry body accuses airline of providing wrong information and complicating claims
British Airways’ IT outage affected 75,000 passengers worldwide
British Airways passengers attempting to claim compensation for their bank holiday travel disruption face further chaos as the airline battles with insurance companies over who is liable to pick up the bill.
In the aftermath of the computer systems outage, which affected 75,000 passengers worldwide, the airline promised to compensate customers who had incurred “disruption expenses” including the cost of hotels, meals and phone calls.
This is on top of the EU compensation worth up to €600 per passenger for delayed or cancelled flights.
However, BA customers attempting to claim for non-flight related expenses online are being told to claim on their travel insurance in the first instance.
This has prompted fury from consumer campaigners, who say this could leave them out of pocket if they have an excess on their policy.
Before they can enter any details of their claim, BA’s online compensation form asks customers if they had travel insurance for the disrupted journey.
If the passenger answers Yes, BA then asks if they have claimed, or intend to make a claim, on their travel insurance.
The compensation form on Bitish Airways’ site
If the passenger answers No, the BA website prompts: “You should make a claim with your travel insurer in the first instance.
“If you have expenses that either you were not successful in claiming or which are not covered by your policy, you may claim for only these expenses in the form below.”
BA’s website does not make it clear if the airline will refund the cost of any excess on passengers’ travel insurance policies.
BA flight chaos: how to get compensation
The FT’s Claer Barrett, BBC Money Box presenter Paul Lewis and guests discuss the travel disruption
This has prompted a complaint from the Association of British Insurers, the industry trade group, which accused the airline of giving passengers the wrong information and complicating the claims process.
“Any cover available under travel insurance will usually kick in only if compensation is not available from any other source,” the ABI told the Financial Times.
“Those affected should seek compensation, and any refunds of expenses, in the first instance from British Airways.
“People affected by the disruption should be able to claim compensation and refunds for any expenses as simply as possible, not being passed from pillar to post. EU flight compensation regulations set out that airline operators should provide compensation to passengers that suffer long delays or cancellations.”
The ABI requested that BA change the wording and structure of its online claim form to reflect this, although the airline has yet to do so.
BA said: “We will update the wording on the claims page of ba.com to give our customers as much information as possible.
“We are very sorry for the frustration customers are experiencing and understand the difficulties they are facing.
BA’s computer meltdown: how did it happen?
Systems and electricity experts sceptical of airline’s explanation of events
“We will fully honour our obligations and would encourage customers to submit their expense claims to us, and we will investigate on a case-by-case basis. We have put additional resource into our call centres, and online customer relations teams to resolve these claims as quickly as possible.”
The company added that customers who were unable to be re-routed by BA and rebooked with other airlines would also be eligible to make a claim.
On the issue of reclaiming insurance excess payments, BA said it would encourage customers to submit claims “for any reasonable expenses they have incurred”.
“BA are making it as difficult as they possibly can so that fewer people will claim,” said Helen Dewdney, author of the Complaining Cow website and blog. “It looks like they’re trying to get back every penny they possibly can.”
The total compensation bill the airline is facing could be as high as €100m, analysts estimate.
Jun 1, 2017, 8:40 am
#1187
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club, easyJet and Ryanair
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK/Las Vegas
Programs: BA Gold (GGL/CCR)
Posts: 15,926
Jun 1, 2017, 8:51 am
#1188
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Somewhere around Europe...
Programs: BA Gold; MB Ti; HH Diamond; IHG Plat; RR Gold
Posts: 530
https://www.ft.com/content/93f083d8-...9-9f94ee97d996 (Behind paywall)
It's interesting though that the ABI is only now getting upset at the "You should make a claim with your travel insurer in the first instance" statement... given it's been on that BA compensation form for as long as I can remember. It's not a new addition in relation to the recent outage.
Jun 1, 2017, 11:09 am
#1189
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 9,677
So, to be clear, there are at least 3 forms to complete:
disruptionclaim.britishairways.com is for reimbursing hotel, airport transfers, and food
baggageclaim.britishairways.com is for reimbursing essential items purchased b/c baggage wasn't available
Delayed Baggage form is for getting the checked bag shipped back via courier
Anything else?
disruptionclaim.britishairways.com is for reimbursing hotel, airport transfers, and food
baggageclaim.britishairways.com is for reimbursing essential items purchased b/c baggage wasn't available
Delayed Baggage form is for getting the checked bag shipped back via courier
Anything else?
Yes, and file a request via the link below stating ‘I’d like to claim EU261 compensation’.
https://www.britishairways.com/trave...N_PHG_ALWAYSON
https://www.britishairways.com/trave...N_PHG_ALWAYSON
Given the level of disruption, we know some customers made alternative travel arrangements themselves, when British Airways was unable to re-route them because of the system limitations, and they had to rebook to other airlines directly via their respective websites or through travel agents. Customers who had to do this are also eligible to make a claim.
The question is.. where does this claim fall under? Disruptionclaim or EC261?
Last edited by izzik; Jun 1, 2017 at 3:41 pm Reason: typo
Jun 1, 2017, 11:13 am
#1190
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,809
The BA website is now suggesting that alternate flights on other carriers may be reimbursed.
Given the level of disruption, we know some customers made alternative travel arrangements themselves, when British Airways was unable to re-route them because of the system limitations, and they had to rebook to other airlines directly via their respective websites or through travel agents. Customers who had to do this are also eligible to make a claim.
The question is.. where does this claim fall under? Disruptionclaim or EU261?
Given the level of disruption, we know some customers made alternative travel arrangements themselves, when British Airways was unable to re-route them because of the system limitations, and they had to rebook to other airlines directly via their respective websites or through travel agents. Customers who had to do this are also eligible to make a claim.
The question is.. where does this claim fall under? Disruptionclaim or EU261?
Any confirmed reports of payments for replacement flights would be very much welcomed in this thread (or if you prefer, PM to me). Ditto EC261, we seem to have one confirmed report thus far.
Jun 1, 2017, 11:38 am
#1191
Community Director
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Norwich, UK
Programs: A3*G, BA Gold, BD Gold (in memoriam), IHG Diamond Ambassador
Posts: 8,477
As the situation has now moved on, and the most likely useful information is going to revolve around EC261/disruptionclaim and/or baggage delivery, we would welcome members posting the results of their claims and experiences in the hope others might be helped with their own actions.
We'd be grateful if questions relating to EC261 claims would continue to be posted in the dedicated thread (link in the wiki). The wiki itself has been updated to reflect this.
/mod
We'd be grateful if questions relating to EC261 claims would continue to be posted in the dedicated thread (link in the wiki). The wiki itself has been updated to reflect this.
/mod
Jun 1, 2017, 12:25 pm
#1192
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: JAX
Programs: Ex-BA/AA/CP/LY staff, BA Executive Club Blue, IHG Diamond, Marriott Silver, Chick-fil-A Red
Posts: 3,587
Redemptions are commercial bookings and should be rebooked during disruption like any other commercial passenger would be.
If BA have truly started discriminating between revenue and redemption bookings during involuntary situations then that's very wrong.
Jun 1, 2017, 2:12 pm
#1193
Join Date: Feb 2016
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 134
So a quick update from me. To the mods, I'm posting this as an update to be helpful for others.
I had flights booked with BA and a Villa booked separately. All flights promised to be refunded although nothing to confirm that yet, i.e. 7-10 days to process a refund. EU261 confirmed as applicable on the phone (we were cancelled and offered another flight 5 days later, no other routing offered). Taxi expense of £50 confirmed on the phone as to be refunded (but not arrived yet). Accomodation, £3.5k nobody wants to know. Travel insurance get out clause is "default by any party" after the words "bankruptcy, insolvency" of carrier - they've said they wont pay out as policy baaed on the BA problems. After 5 days on the phone (rather than being on holiday!) BA wont give any compensation outside the EU261 rules. Will be referring to CEDR, as this appears to be the last chance saloon. If you are impacted please read the CAA websites advice on this situation and look for thier suggestion of CEDR adjudication. When on the phone I was told BA had to agree to CEDR refferal, but I find this hard to swallow if it is an adjuciation service.
eta - I still managed sunburn in south london today!
I had flights booked with BA and a Villa booked separately. All flights promised to be refunded although nothing to confirm that yet, i.e. 7-10 days to process a refund. EU261 confirmed as applicable on the phone (we were cancelled and offered another flight 5 days later, no other routing offered). Taxi expense of £50 confirmed on the phone as to be refunded (but not arrived yet). Accomodation, £3.5k nobody wants to know. Travel insurance get out clause is "default by any party" after the words "bankruptcy, insolvency" of carrier - they've said they wont pay out as policy baaed on the BA problems. After 5 days on the phone (rather than being on holiday!) BA wont give any compensation outside the EU261 rules. Will be referring to CEDR, as this appears to be the last chance saloon. If you are impacted please read the CAA websites advice on this situation and look for thier suggestion of CEDR adjudication. When on the phone I was told BA had to agree to CEDR refferal, but I find this hard to swallow if it is an adjuciation service.
eta - I still managed sunburn in south london today!
Last edited by NWIFlyer; Jun 1, 2017 at 6:12 pm Reason: Remove off topic question
Jun 1, 2017, 2:20 pm
#1194
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,809
It is a well known aspect of air travel that consequential losses are for insurance (or self insurance). Imagine you were a musician flying to Portugal for a concert, and BA's failure to fly you meant you lost a vast sum of money: clearly you would need that risk covered by insurance, not BA. So I fear complaining about the airline about the accommodation is wasting your time.
Jun 1, 2017, 2:28 pm
#1195
Join Date: Feb 2016
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 134
Quite right, and fully acknowledged. My insurance is part of my work benefits and I will chase them up again. However, am I supposed to shoulder this cost because ultimately BA delayed me for 5 days of a 7 day break? I understand they want to mitigate thier losses as do the insurers, and yes I know things go wrong. This went very wrong though, and no help has been offerred by the carrier whose root cause (within thier control) caused the issue. I didn't even get offered avios. I guess roses in the bog are more important :-)
eta - the point about not contacting me to help, I know they are busy but if they can't contact thier customers maybe they shouldn't fly so near the edge, excuse the pun, when it comes to number of passengers and thier IT capability.
eta2 - I spent a year working on BAs revenue management system in the early 2000s, so I know full well they spend money and plan very well for situations where things go in thier favour! /rant
eta - the point about not contacting me to help, I know they are busy but if they can't contact thier customers maybe they shouldn't fly so near the edge, excuse the pun, when it comes to number of passengers and thier IT capability.
eta2 - I spent a year working on BAs revenue management system in the early 2000s, so I know full well they spend money and plan very well for situations where things go in thier favour! /rant
Last edited by herbertgoon; Jun 1, 2017 at 2:34 pm
Jun 1, 2017, 2:36 pm
#1196
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,809
Well I think I did try to explain this in my previous reply: this is consequential losses, and travellers' consequential losses vary from potentially zero (e.g. a student returning home from college) to millions of dollars (the musician, or someone who doesn't get a job offer due to missing the interview). You are in the middle area, and hotel accommodation, along with airport parking and car rental losses are often in this area. For these sorts of losses it's for travel insurance to look after it, it's certainly nothing new, and that's why there is such a big industry around travel insurance. I've not really come across an example of an airline covering consequential losses, except perhaps as a very occasional gesture. In this case, I really cannot see BA covering 75,000 people's individual arrangements.
Jun 1, 2017, 2:42 pm
#1197
Join Date: Feb 2016
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 134
I realise this but thankyou. They woudn't even entertain a gesture. I will let everyone know how adjucication via CEDR goes. I know you are the most respected poster here and you have helped me on a couple of occasions for which I am thankfull.
eta, the lack of trust has nothing to do with the compensation issue, but thier business continuity issues.
eta, the lack of trust has nothing to do with the compensation issue, but thier business continuity issues.
Last edited by NWIFlyer; Jun 1, 2017 at 9:40 pm Reason: Remove off topic question to avoid thread derailment
Jun 1, 2017, 9:10 pm
#1198
Join Date: Jun 2007
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 117
Hello, me again. Question about making a claim for clothing given my baggage didn't arrive. BA advise going through insurers rather than through them as they'll offer more comprehensive cover. That last part aside, is this just BA trying to offload the admin/hassle onto somebody else, or is it best for me to claim back the expenses from my travel insurance rather than directly from BA?
Jun 1, 2017, 9:29 pm
#1199
Community Director
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Norwich, UK
Programs: A3*G, BA Gold, BD Gold (in memoriam), IHG Diamond Ambassador
Posts: 8,477
Hello, me again. Question about making a claim for clothing given my baggage didn't arrive. BA advise going through insurers rather than through them as they'll offer more comprehensive cover. That last part aside, is this just BA trying to offload the admin/hassle onto somebody else, or is it best for me to claim back the expenses from my travel insurance rather than directly from BA?
Last edited by NWIFlyer; Jun 1, 2017 at 9:43 pm
Jun 2, 2017, 12:54 am
#1200
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,809
Hello, me again. Question about making a claim for clothing given my baggage didn't arrive. BA advise going through insurers rather than through them as they'll offer more comprehensive cover. That last part aside, is this just BA trying to offload the admin/hassle onto somebody else, or is it best for me to claim back the expenses from my travel insurance rather than directly from BA?