Trouble with avios/cash refund
Oct 30, 2014, 2:50 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 628
Trouble with avios/cash refund
I booked two one way wtp from lhr to jfk next summer avios plus cash. 3 weeks later I added a return from cancun, about 3 weeks after adding the return I was charged one amount plus the extra avios, about 4 days after that another cash amount (per ticket). In total I paid just under £1,600 plus 39,000 avios. I am now trying to cancel this booking. It wouldn't go through online, so have tried to call a couple of times and they are only offering a refund of under £900.
I'm sure it will sort out in the end, but I know BA can take their time processing refunds, so I wondered if anyone else had any experience (I paid on my BA Amex so have full transaction information).
I'm sure it will sort out in the end, but I know BA can take their time processing refunds, so I wondered if anyone else had any experience (I paid on my BA Amex so have full transaction information).
Oct 30, 2014, 3:18 pm
#2
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Near Edinburgh
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 9,034
What are you expecting them to return? £900 + the Avios, or £1600 + the Avios, or somewhere inbetween?
What were the cancellation conditions on your original WT+ ticket and what did it cost, and what did the upgrade cost? You should definitely get the Avios back, but the cash refund will be determined by the conditions on the ticket you purchased.
What were the cancellation conditions on your original WT+ ticket and what did it cost, and what did the upgrade cost? You should definitely get the Avios back, but the cash refund will be determined by the conditions on the ticket you purchased.
Oct 30, 2014, 3:24 pm
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 628
It was an avios plus money booking, therefore I would be expecting a refund of the avios plus 1,600 less the 70 cancellation fee. BA don't seem to be able to trace the amounts I paid in order to refund. They don't seem to be disputing it is a refundable ticket, they just can't work out how much I paid!
Oct 30, 2014, 4:05 pm
#4
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: London
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By Avios and money do you mean
1) an Avios booking with money paying for taxes and fees
2) an Avios booking per 1, but buying extra Avios as part of the booking
3) a cash booking with Avios upgrade
4) cash booking with Avios used to reduce cash cost
I'm guessing 4 or 2 as the amount of Avios quoted wouldn't make sense for 1 (30,000 + £310 is what I see for o/w LHR-JFK in wt+
If 2 then they won't refund the full cash amount, but will refund the higher amount of Avios (as you bought those they won't let you exchange them back)
I may be way off on my understanding of course, and have had my own issues with ba refunds in the past!
1) an Avios booking with money paying for taxes and fees
2) an Avios booking per 1, but buying extra Avios as part of the booking
3) a cash booking with Avios upgrade
4) cash booking with Avios used to reduce cash cost
I'm guessing 4 or 2 as the amount of Avios quoted wouldn't make sense for 1 (30,000 + £310 is what I see for o/w LHR-JFK in wt+
If 2 then they won't refund the full cash amount, but will refund the higher amount of Avios (as you bought those they won't let you exchange them back)
I may be way off on my understanding of course, and have had my own issues with ba refunds in the past!
Oct 30, 2014, 4:18 pm
#5
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 628
You're right with 2 sort of, but at no point did I buy extra avios so there is no reason the full amount (less the cancellation fee) should not be refunded. If I had done a normal booking without all the reticketing malarkey I'm sure it would have been quite easily.
Oct 30, 2014, 4:31 pm
#6
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From britishairways.com:
Can I change or cancel my booking?
Can I make changes to my booking?
This depends on the fare that you have purchased. Bookings made with this payment option will be subject to the standard fare rules associated with the fare purchased.
Can I upgrade my booking using Avios?
Upgrades are dependent on the type of booking you have and there must be availability in the class you want to upgrade to. Upgrades are available from the following British Airways booking classes: J, C, D, R, I, W, E, T, Y, B, H.
If you’ve already made a booking, then you can upgrade using Avios through Manage My Booking.
Are the Avios refundable if I cancel my booking?
When Avios have been used as part payment, the Avios will be refundable only where the fare is refundable. Partial refunds of fare and surcharges will be credited to your Avios account up to the value of the original part payment, with any remainder credited to your original method of payment
Can I make changes to my booking?
This depends on the fare that you have purchased. Bookings made with this payment option will be subject to the standard fare rules associated with the fare purchased.
Can I upgrade my booking using Avios?
Upgrades are dependent on the type of booking you have and there must be availability in the class you want to upgrade to. Upgrades are available from the following British Airways booking classes: J, C, D, R, I, W, E, T, Y, B, H.
If you’ve already made a booking, then you can upgrade using Avios through Manage My Booking.
Are the Avios refundable if I cancel my booking?
When Avios have been used as part payment, the Avios will be refundable only where the fare is refundable. Partial refunds of fare and surcharges will be credited to your Avios account up to the value of the original part payment, with any remainder credited to your original method of payment
Using Avios as part-payment for a flight
1.Members can use their Avios to pay for part of the total price of selected British Airways flight bookings made on ba.com.
2.Bookings made with this payment option will be subject to the standard fare rules associated with the fare purchased.
3.Avios can be used to pay for bookings made on ba.com or by calling a British Airways Contact Centre. Avios cannot be used to pay for flights booked through a travel agent.
4.This payment option is only available on British Airways operated flights, and not on any codeshare services. The entire booking must be eligible for Avios part-payment for it to be applied to the booking.
5.The Avios payment rates are defined in a fixed set of currencies. If more than one Avios payment option is available, it is not possible to change the price option chosen once a booking has been made.
6.The Avios payable will depend on the cabin class, route selected, and will be clearly displayed on the booking page.
7.BA reserves the right to alter the applicable Avios payment rates at any time (but this will not apply to bookings already made before change).
8.When a Member makes a booking using Avios, the Member must make the relevant payment for the ticket. The Avios will be debited from the booker’s Executive Club account, for each passenger on the booking.
9.The Avios to be accrued by each Executive Club Member on any booking made using Avios part-payment will be clearly displayed on the booking page. The Avios and Tier Points to be accrued by each Executive Club Member on the booking will be in line with commercial fare rules.
10.When Avios have been used as part payment, the Avios will be refundable only where the fare is refundable. Partial refunds of fare and surcharges will be credited to your Avios account up to the value of the original part payment, with any remainder credited to your original method of payment together with government taxes.
11.In the case of a household account, current redemption rules apply regarding the debiting of Avios across the accounts of the household members. However, Members of a household account can make Avios part-payment bookings for people outside of the household account.
12.Avios part-payment may not be used in conjunction with any other promotional offers, unless expressly stated otherwise.
1.Members can use their Avios to pay for part of the total price of selected British Airways flight bookings made on ba.com.
2.Bookings made with this payment option will be subject to the standard fare rules associated with the fare purchased.
3.Avios can be used to pay for bookings made on ba.com or by calling a British Airways Contact Centre. Avios cannot be used to pay for flights booked through a travel agent.
4.This payment option is only available on British Airways operated flights, and not on any codeshare services. The entire booking must be eligible for Avios part-payment for it to be applied to the booking.
5.The Avios payment rates are defined in a fixed set of currencies. If more than one Avios payment option is available, it is not possible to change the price option chosen once a booking has been made.
6.The Avios payable will depend on the cabin class, route selected, and will be clearly displayed on the booking page.
7.BA reserves the right to alter the applicable Avios payment rates at any time (but this will not apply to bookings already made before change).
8.When a Member makes a booking using Avios, the Member must make the relevant payment for the ticket. The Avios will be debited from the booker’s Executive Club account, for each passenger on the booking.
9.The Avios to be accrued by each Executive Club Member on any booking made using Avios part-payment will be clearly displayed on the booking page. The Avios and Tier Points to be accrued by each Executive Club Member on the booking will be in line with commercial fare rules.
10.When Avios have been used as part payment, the Avios will be refundable only where the fare is refundable. Partial refunds of fare and surcharges will be credited to your Avios account up to the value of the original part payment, with any remainder credited to your original method of payment together with government taxes.
11.In the case of a household account, current redemption rules apply regarding the debiting of Avios across the accounts of the household members. However, Members of a household account can make Avios part-payment bookings for people outside of the household account.
12.Avios part-payment may not be used in conjunction with any other promotional offers, unless expressly stated otherwise.
Oct 30, 2014, 4:32 pm
#7
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His option 4 is making a cash booking, but choosing to use some Avios to reduce the cash needed for the ticket.
Oct 31, 2014, 12:36 am
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 628
I think what lorcancoyle meant was making an award booking, where you normally pay the standard amount of Avios plus cash for the TFC, but where you opted to pay a higher amount of cash to reduce the number of Avios needed for the redemption. Does that sound right?
His option 4 is making a cash booking, but choosing to use some Avios to reduce the cash needed for the ticket.
His option 4 is making a cash booking, but choosing to use some Avios to reduce the cash needed for the ticket.
Oct 31, 2014, 5:57 am
#9
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Trouble with avios/cash refund
In that case you should be refunded along the below lines (illustrative numbers)
You paid £1600 plus 39,000 Avios
BA views it as you paying something like £1050 and 75,000 Avios (ie £550 of cash was spent on avoid, and then they were spent on the flight)
So BA should refund £1050 and 75k avios
You paid £1600 plus 39,000 Avios
BA views it as you paying something like £1050 and 75,000 Avios (ie £550 of cash was spent on avoid, and then they were spent on the flight)
So BA should refund £1050 and 75k avios
Oct 31, 2014, 6:27 am
#10
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 628
In that case you should be refunded along the below lines (illustrative numbers)
You paid £1600 plus 39,000 Avios
BA views it as you paying something like £1050 and 75,000 Avios (ie £550 of cash was spent on avoid, and then they were spent on the flight)
So BA should refund £1050 and 75k avios
You paid £1600 plus 39,000 Avios
BA views it as you paying something like £1050 and 75,000 Avios (ie £550 of cash was spent on avoid, and then they were spent on the flight)
So BA should refund £1050 and 75k avios
Really???? I'm not sure at any point there is anything about 'buying' avios. I have just done a dummy booking to confirm this. It also says 'For bookings cancelled up to 1 full day before outbound departure, a charge may be levied. All Avios will be re-credited to the member's account and cash will be refunded'.
My conversations so far haven't indicated this is the case either, just they can't seem to be able to track how much I have paid.
Oct 31, 2014, 6:39 am
#11
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Tyrone,EU
Programs: Avios Hunter
Posts: 2,812
The screens makes it very clear that you are paying less avios and more cash, nothing at all to suggest that BA "views" this as an avios purchase and that a refund will get you back avios that you somehow bought.
Last edited by tangey; Oct 31, 2014 at 8:01 am
Oct 31, 2014, 6:44 am
#12
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In that case you should be refunded along the below lines (illustrative numbers)
You paid £1600 plus 39,000 Avios
BA views it as you paying something like £1050 and 75,000 Avios (ie £550 of cash was spent on avoid, and then they were spent on the flight)
So BA should refund £1050 and 75k avios
You paid £1600 plus 39,000 Avios
BA views it as you paying something like £1050 and 75,000 Avios (ie £550 of cash was spent on avoid, and then they were spent on the flight)
So BA should refund £1050 and 75k avios
You are entitled to a refund of all the avios and all the cash i.e. the taxes, fees, and the extra cash element you paid to reduce the avios due, minus any cancellation fee. I have done exactly the same types of bookings myself, paid extra to reduce the avios due, and cancelled getting back a refund as expected.
Oct 31, 2014, 6:55 am
#13
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 628
Thanks Karfa and Tangey. Hopefully ba will trace the transactions. It's not until July next year, although getting the cash back would be useful, particularly as I've just rebooked the same flights in the CW sale and paid for those!!!
Oct 31, 2014, 7:15 am
#14
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Bear in mind I have some faint memory that you get the money back in parts and not one lump sum - so taxes, fees, & charges as one amount, and separately the cash amount you paid to reduce the avios. I would have to check back on my statements to see if that is right, but as I say I have a feeling that is what happens.
Dec 8, 2014, 2:35 am
#15
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Bear in mind I have some faint memory that you get the money back in parts and not one lump sum - so taxes, fees, & charges as one amount, and separately the cash amount you paid to reduce the avios. I would have to check back on my statements to see if that is right, but as I say I have a feeling that is what happens.
Have got the refund today for both on to my Amex card and I was right, you get two refunds per booking. For my two cancelled bookings I received two credits of £295 each for the extra paid, and then two other credits which match the amounts I paid in taxes, charges, and fees for each booking. Just thought I would post this for any future reference.