California Zephyr to Coast Starlight
Jan 2, 2014, 12:59 pm
#16
Join Date: May 2012
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Programs: Amtrak Select Executive, Hertz PC, National EE, IC Diamond Ambassador, ALL Gold, Hyatt Disc
Posts: 531
Perhaps I did not describe it well. In my scenario, there are TWO available rooms. "Room A" is available from DEN-SAC and "Room B" is available DEN-EMY.
Our connecting passenger books his ticket 48 hours prior to departure from DEN. He tells Amtrak he'd like to connect in EMY despite having no reason (other than personal pleasure) to be on the train west of SAC. The Amtrak agent naturally books him in Room A, which is the only available room between DEN and EMY.
Passenger #2 calls Amtrak 47 hours prior to departure and says he'd like to buy a room from DEN to EMY. The agent pulls up the manifest and sees that there is no availability from DEN to EMY. Passenger #2 cannot purchase a room from DEN-SAC and then move to a coach seat in SAC, because the computer will not allow "boardings" from SAC westward. And even if this could be "forced", the phone agent will probably not suggest it or the passenger will not agree to it. Ultimately, passenger #2 is told he cannot book a room from DEN-EMY.
Therefore, the joyriding passenger #1 is preventing Amtrak from selling space between SAC-EMY. Of course, it is entirely possible that a Passenger #3 will call Amtrak 46 hours prior to departure and purchase a room from DEN-SAC, which would mostly erase the revenue-loss caused by turning away Passenger #2.
Anyhow, it's a bit complicated but I think it's clear that allowing joyrides west of SAC for connecting passengers does have the potential for blocking other travelers. On any given day, is this happening? Probably not. But I'm just saying that it could. There's really no upside for Amtrak to allow guaranteed connections west of SAC, other than the intangible benefit of making people happy.
Our connecting passenger books his ticket 48 hours prior to departure from DEN. He tells Amtrak he'd like to connect in EMY despite having no reason (other than personal pleasure) to be on the train west of SAC. The Amtrak agent naturally books him in Room A, which is the only available room between DEN and EMY.
Passenger #2 calls Amtrak 47 hours prior to departure and says he'd like to buy a room from DEN to EMY. The agent pulls up the manifest and sees that there is no availability from DEN to EMY. Passenger #2 cannot purchase a room from DEN-SAC and then move to a coach seat in SAC, because the computer will not allow "boardings" from SAC westward. And even if this could be "forced", the phone agent will probably not suggest it or the passenger will not agree to it. Ultimately, passenger #2 is told he cannot book a room from DEN-EMY.
Therefore, the joyriding passenger #1 is preventing Amtrak from selling space between SAC-EMY. Of course, it is entirely possible that a Passenger #3 will call Amtrak 46 hours prior to departure and purchase a room from DEN-SAC, which would mostly erase the revenue-loss caused by turning away Passenger #2.
Anyhow, it's a bit complicated but I think it's clear that allowing joyrides west of SAC for connecting passengers does have the potential for blocking other travelers. On any given day, is this happening? Probably not. But I'm just saying that it could. There's really no upside for Amtrak to allow guaranteed connections west of SAC, other than the intangible benefit of making people happy.
Also, the OP asked about connecting to meet with some friends and was willing to purchase a coach ticket to make the journey. I would not be working under the assumption that travelers who are asking about a change are simply "joyriding." I do agree that the guaranteed connection point is SAC and that points west of that are not (and should not be) guaranteed. I also do see there could be a potential impact on Train 14 in terms of revenue space between EMY-SAC.
With that said, to the OP, ask Amtrak and see what they suggest in terms of booking. Yes there are rules, however there is also Customer Service so they can advise you on the potential options that will not break any of the connection rules.
Last edited by roadman3313; Jan 2, 2014 at 1:19 pm Reason: Clarification
Jan 2, 2014, 2:42 pm
#17
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: United States
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Amtrak
Posts: 4,647
I believe it was being questioned as to why a room would only be available to SAC and not to points beyond. In your example, the DEN-SAC room implies that it is occupied from SAC-EMY only. The last stop where someone could board would be RSV so I am curious how a room would only be available DEN-SAC?
Color me embarrassed. I'm wrong on this one.
Of course, the question of potentially blocking revenue space on #14 still holds. But I'm wrong on the SAC-EMY point.
Jan 2, 2014, 4:47 pm
#18
Join Date: May 2012
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Programs: Amtrak Select Executive, Hertz PC, National EE, IC Diamond Ambassador, ALL Gold, Hyatt Disc
Posts: 531
Apr 9, 2014, 12:24 am
#19
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 22
I'm doing some advance planning for a trip in 2015 that will use AGR points for a Bedroom from Denver to Seattle via the California Zephyr and Coast Starlight. The "forced" connection point for that is Sacramento but it's a 10 hour scheduled connection with an 11:59pm departure from SAC. We have friends in the Bay Area we'd love to spend a few hours with so would like to make the connection at Emeryville.
From what I've read, there is no option to move the connection point on the AGR points ticket. Which leaves buying a cash coach ticket SAC-EMY-SAC. EMY-SAC on the CS is no problem as that can be sold. But all stations SAC and west on the CZ are discharge-only station so can't (at least via the web site) buy that. So options seem to be:
1) See if Reservations can "force sell" a SAC-EMY ticket on the CZ.
2) Buy an unreserved (Capitols) tickets SAC-EMY and see if the conductor will let us stay on with it
3) Buy a Roseville-EMY ticket on the CZ (but risk of duplicate ticket logic catching that)
Has anyone done something similar? Suggestions?
Separate issue will be seeing if we can be in "our" bedroom despite coach tickets but that I know will need to be handled day of operation with the conductors. SAC-EMY on the CZ logically shouldn't be an issue since it would otherwise be empty (can't be sold west of us officially departing it at SAC). EMY-SAC on the CS will depend on if someone else has the bedroom south of SAC. Ideally we'd be able to get in it as soon as it's available so we don't have to wait until SAC at midnight to settle down.
From what I've read, there is no option to move the connection point on the AGR points ticket. Which leaves buying a cash coach ticket SAC-EMY-SAC. EMY-SAC on the CS is no problem as that can be sold. But all stations SAC and west on the CZ are discharge-only station so can't (at least via the web site) buy that. So options seem to be:
1) See if Reservations can "force sell" a SAC-EMY ticket on the CZ.
2) Buy an unreserved (Capitols) tickets SAC-EMY and see if the conductor will let us stay on with it
3) Buy a Roseville-EMY ticket on the CZ (but risk of duplicate ticket logic catching that)
Has anyone done something similar? Suggestions?
Separate issue will be seeing if we can be in "our" bedroom despite coach tickets but that I know will need to be handled day of operation with the conductors. SAC-EMY on the CZ logically shouldn't be an issue since it would otherwise be empty (can't be sold west of us officially departing it at SAC). EMY-SAC on the CS will depend on if someone else has the bedroom south of SAC. Ideally we'd be able to get in it as soon as it's available so we don't have to wait until SAC at midnight to settle down.
I was searching for information about this connection and found this thread from January and I have a couple of questions.
I'm making this connection in mid-May and although I would like to spend some time in SAC to see the rail museum, etc., I'm not sure I want to spend nearly 10 hours there. I thought about buying a revenue ticket to Richmond on Capitol Corridor to catch BART into the city and then coming back the same way or maybe even hopping on the northbound Coast Starlight in EMY.
Here are my questions:
If I leave my luggage at the station in SAC and end up catching the CS in EMY, I'd have to jump off the train in SAC, grab my bag, and get back on. Would this be possible?
Let's say the luggage grab is not feasible or I decide it's too risky, so I purchase an unreserved coach ticket for the Capitol Corridor 546 that arrives SAC at 10:28PM. If I check the status of the Starlate and see that it's running 2 hours late like the train of 4/7, can I catch the later Capitol Corridor with the same ticket or do I need to switch tickets (I've only ever traveled on points)?
Is there luggage storage at EMY in case the Zephyr is running super early and I can convince the conductor to let me ride to EMY on a Capitol Corridor ticket?
Thanks,
Steve
Apr 14, 2014, 11:18 am
#20
Join Date: Aug 2013
Programs: AA Plat,AS MVP Gold, Hilton Gold, Accor Plat, Amtrak(all routes, VIA same, AUS 90%)
Posts: 382
Same here
Yep, in a week or so I will be doing the "Sacramento Shuffle," for 9 hours or so-local attractions include the Cal RR Museum(with 2 hours of open time if CZ is on time), Morton's, etc. I really don't mind the wait time unless the CS is running very late but I sympathize with your concerns.
Was just a couple years ago I did LA-PTL-ORD with a 2 region redemption, apparently no longer possible. AGR agents may have less discretion that previous.
Was just a couple years ago I did LA-PTL-ORD with a 2 region redemption, apparently no longer possible. AGR agents may have less discretion that previous.
Apr 15, 2014, 3:25 pm
#21
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 14
Actually, it is far-fetched. How could a room be open DEN-SAC but booked SAC-EMY? Since no boardings can be sold from SAC west, all stations from SAC to EMY should have the same availability.
But it did make me think that from the view of not needlessly blocking salable space, the idea of buying a Roseville-EMY coach ticket is the least optimal to Amtrak as potentially you could be taking the last seat Roseville-SAC. Even "force selling" a SAC-EMY coach ticket is potentially revenue blocking. Allowing an unreserved coach ticket to be used for continuing passengers is the best and then letting you stay in the room they know will be vacant is the best.
But it did make me think that from the view of not needlessly blocking salable space, the idea of buying a Roseville-EMY coach ticket is the least optimal to Amtrak as potentially you could be taking the last seat Roseville-SAC. Even "force selling" a SAC-EMY coach ticket is potentially revenue blocking. Allowing an unreserved coach ticket to be used for continuing passengers is the best and then letting you stay in the room they know will be vacant is the best.
Sep 8, 2014, 10:33 am
#22
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Anywhere and Everywhere
Programs: UA 1K MM, Hilton Diamond, Costco
Posts: 622
Going the other way CS to CZ
I made booking to connect in EMY from SEA - EMY - CHI.
The connection time is 1 hour...IS THIS ENOUGH...Will CS be late?
Given that I could connect on CS's stations at SAC (5 hours), Davis (4 hours)...or any other suggestions.
I did notice that it is cheaper to connect in Davis...but I don't mind maximizing my train trip...but I don't want to lose the connection.
How to proceed? Change booking...lose some money?
Do I get breakfast on the last stretch from SAC to EMY?
The connection time is 1 hour...IS THIS ENOUGH...Will CS be late?
Given that I could connect on CS's stations at SAC (5 hours), Davis (4 hours)...or any other suggestions.
I did notice that it is cheaper to connect in Davis...but I don't mind maximizing my train trip...but I don't want to lose the connection.
How to proceed? Change booking...lose some money?
Do I get breakfast on the last stretch from SAC to EMY?
Sep 9, 2014, 6:00 am
#23
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: MCY
Programs: AAdvantage, QFF, UA, Hyatt, SPG
Posts: 448
Well I would change the booking to use SAC not EMY.
Less rushing involved.
I'm surprised Amtrak sell the 1-hour connection at EMY.
I guess the plan is to kick you off at SAC anyhow if they are running late!
Note that even a 5-hour connection at SAC may not be enough if the CS is delayed.
I have done the reverse connection (CZ to CS) at SAC a few times, but when I wanted
to make the CS to CZ connection I booked myself an overnight stay in SAC or SFO.
Less rushing involved.
I'm surprised Amtrak sell the 1-hour connection at EMY.
I guess the plan is to kick you off at SAC anyhow if they are running late!
Note that even a 5-hour connection at SAC may not be enough if the CS is delayed.
I have done the reverse connection (CZ to CS) at SAC a few times, but when I wanted
to make the CS to CZ connection I booked myself an overnight stay in SAC or SFO.
Last edited by wallaby; Sep 9, 2014 at 6:14 am
Jun 27, 2015, 8:37 am
#24
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 204
The trip has come and gone and all worked out. Ticketed to connect from the CZ to the CS at SAC plus holding separate OKJ-SAC coach tickets, leaving RNO, I talked to the conductor who worked RNO-EMY and explained the situation. He immediately OK'd staying on and in the room to EMY.
With that out of the way, we met my relatives and had dinner (they preferred one of the Jack London Square restaurants so booking the return coach ticket to SAC from OKJ to EMY was fortuitous). When the train came in (no advance lineup or kindergarten walk fortunately), we first went to the sleeper (it was on the way to the coaches on the rear), talked to the SCA who said it was open but not quite ready but come aboard. Meanwhile, the assistant conductor walked by, explained to her, and she took both tickets (OKJ-SAC and SAC-SEA. Stored our stuff and then hung out in the PPC until the room was fully ready. Already in bed by SAC.
With that out of the way, we met my relatives and had dinner (they preferred one of the Jack London Square restaurants so booking the return coach ticket to SAC from OKJ to EMY was fortuitous). When the train came in (no advance lineup or kindergarten walk fortunately), we first went to the sleeper (it was on the way to the coaches on the rear), talked to the SCA who said it was open but not quite ready but come aboard. Meanwhile, the assistant conductor walked by, explained to her, and she took both tickets (OKJ-SAC and SAC-SEA. Stored our stuff and then hung out in the PPC until the room was fully ready. Already in bed by SAC.