California Zephyr to Coast Starlight

Old Dec 25, 2013, 7:26 am
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 200
California Zephyr to Coast Starlight

I'm doing some advance planning for a trip in 2015 that will use AGR points for a Bedroom from Denver to Seattle via the California Zephyr and Coast Starlight. The "forced" connection point for that is Sacramento but it's a 10 hour scheduled connection with an 11:59pm departure from SAC. We have friends in the Bay Area we'd love to spend a few hours with so would like to make the connection at Emeryville.

From what I've read, there is no option to move the connection point on the AGR points ticket. Which leaves buying a cash coach ticket SAC-EMY-SAC. EMY-SAC on the CS is no problem as that can be sold. But all stations SAC and west on the CZ are discharge-only station so can't (at least via the web site) buy that. So options seem to be:
1) See if Reservations can "force sell" a SAC-EMY ticket on the CZ.
2) Buy an unreserved (Capitols) tickets SAC-EMY and see if the conductor will let us stay on with it
3) Buy a Roseville-EMY ticket on the CZ (but risk of duplicate ticket logic catching that)

Has anyone done something similar? Suggestions?

Separate issue will be seeing if we can be in "our" bedroom despite coach tickets but that I know will need to be handled day of operation with the conductors. SAC-EMY on the CZ logically shouldn't be an issue since it would otherwise be empty (can't be sold west of us officially departing it at SAC). EMY-SAC on the CS will depend on if someone else has the bedroom south of SAC. Ideally we'd be able to get in it as soon as it's available so we don't have to wait until SAC at midnight to settle down.
BelmontRef is offline  
Old Dec 26, 2013, 10:48 am
  #2  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Programs: Amtrak Select Executive, Hertz PC, National EE, IC Diamond Ambassador, ALL Gold, Hyatt Disc
Posts: 530
I'd call and ask AGR first to change with the condition that you understand that if the CZ is running really late that you will change in SAC. I know people have made that connection in Davis and Emeryville. I have also purchased a ticket from RSV-EMY before as we'll (due to a last minute travel change) and I was allowed to stay in my room until Emeryville. As you said, that aspect is handled by the on board crew, however it is possible.

Either way you should be able to visit your friends in the Bay Area and have a nice journey.
roadman3313 is offline  
Old Dec 26, 2013, 8:18 pm
  #3  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 14
Perhaps your Bay Area friends would instead just like to come up to Sacramento (via auto or Capitol Corridor train) to have dinner and a tour of Old Sacramento with you before your midnight departure to Seattle. The paddlewheel Delta King docked in Old Sacramento is a great place to eat, as are the other boats that offer evening dinner cruises on the Sacramento River, also departing from Old Sacramento -- a 5 minute walk from the Amtrak station.
chakk is offline  
Old Dec 26, 2013, 9:33 pm
  #4  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 200
This would probably be on a weekday so the idea of having them come to Sacramento is probably not workable. Besides, a big reason for doing this is the scenery and I'd really like to get the Martinez to Richmond segment again. But the ideas for Sacramento are worth considering.
BelmontRef is offline  
Old Dec 27, 2013, 9:12 am
  #5  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: seattle
Programs: AGR, Alaska Air, CSP, IHG, Hyatt
Posts: 32
I've made that connection from the cz to cs , connecting in emy instead of sac. Just ask when you book with agr, and if the agent says no, ask them to check with a supervisor because you've heard it's allowed.
manderson99 is offline  
Old Dec 27, 2013, 10:11 am
  #6  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Programs: Amtrak Select
Posts: 333
Originally Posted by roadman3313
I'd call and ask AGR first to change with the condition that you understand that if the CZ is running really late that you will change in SAC. I know people have made that connection in Davis and Emeryville. I have also purchased a ticket from RSV-EMY before as we'll (due to a last minute travel change) and I was allowed to stay in my room until Emeryville. As you said, that aspect is handled by the on board crew, however it is possible.

Either way you should be able to visit your friends in the Bay Area and have a nice journey.
I recently made an AGR reservation that includes a CZ/CS connection. I was informed that the train opreations folks are no longer allowing Davis or Martinez as a guaranteed connection, and that it must be made in SAC.

So your only choice is to buy a coach ticket on both legs to extend your trip past SAC and make the connection later versus changing the current reservation to allow a connection later down the line.
amamba is offline  
Old Dec 27, 2013, 12:45 pm
  #7  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: United States
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Amtrak
Posts: 4,647
Originally Posted by amamba
I recently made an AGR reservation that includes a CZ/CS connection. I was informed that the train opreations folks are no longer allowing Davis or Martinez as a guaranteed connection, and that it must be made in SAC.
Hate to say it, but this makes sense. Why should Amtrak risk having to accommodate a passenger who tried making a risker-than-needed connection? [I understand that it's not a risky connection if the Zephyr's on-time]

Plus, it frees up revenue space between SAC and EMY.
fairviewroad is offline  
Old Dec 27, 2013, 3:51 pm
  #8  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Programs: Amtrak
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by amamba
I recently made an AGR reservation that includes a CZ/CS connection. I was informed that the train opreations folks are no longer allowing Davis or Martinez as a guaranteed connection, and that it must be made in SAC.
How recent is this change? I made the connection in EMY last July with no hassles from the AGR agent.

Originally Posted by fairviewroad
Hate to say it, but this makes sense. Why should Amtrak risk having to accommodate a passenger who tried making a risker-than-needed connection? [I understand that it's not a risky connection if the Zephyr's on-time]

Plus, it frees up revenue space between SAC and EMY.
It makes no sense at all to me.

1. No one is asking Amtrak to guarantee a riskier than needed connection. An AGR member would certainly know enough to bail if #5 were running late. In fact anyone who knows enough about Amtrak not to be forced into changing in SAC would know to bail.
2. #5 is discharge only at SAC and west.
3. By your logic AGR shouldn't exist because any reward takes up revenue space.
4. The R in AGR stands for reward not punishment. Getting to bed after midnight waiting for a late CS is punishment in my book.
jobtraklite is offline  
Old Dec 27, 2013, 5:22 pm
  #9  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 200
Originally Posted by jobtraklite
It makes no sense at all to me.

1. No one is asking Amtrak to guarantee a riskier than needed connection. An AGR member would certainly know enough to bail if #5 were running late. In fact anyone who knows enough about Amtrak not to be forced into changing in SAC would know to bail.
It makes partial sense to me.

I'd allow but make it clear than it is at the passenger's risk and the passenger has the obligation to get off earlier if needed. Amtrak should say the connection is only guaranteed at SAC and if the passenger goes farther west and misses, tough luck.

Originally Posted by jobtraklite
2. #5 is discharge only at SAC and west.
On #5, it is otherwise unused space. But on #14, it is taking potential salable space. Which makes Amtrak's pricing puzzling. I picked a day in next June and priced DEN-SAC and EMY and EMY and SAC to YVR (yes, I know that's not Amtrak's code for Vancouver :-) ) (an equivalent set of dates to what we're planning for 2015). For two people, on #5, to stay on past SAC to EMY increased the base fare (Value) $14 plus an additional $77 for the bedroom (the bedroom that will otherwise be vacant SAC-EMY). But for #14, the base fare stayed the same and the bedroom is only $57 more. Make it EMY/SAC to just SEA and it's even stranger: $22 more for the base fare but just $5 more for the bedroom.

Originally Posted by jobtraklite
3. By your logic AGR shouldn't exist because any reward takes up revenue space.
AGR rewards are properly considered revenue space. The revenue was received at the time the points were earned. Essentially a pre-payment of the fare. The trick for us is making those points as valuable as possible.

Originally Posted by jobtraklite
4. The R in AGR stands for reward not punishment. Getting to bed after midnight waiting for a late CS is punishment in my book.
Yep. And to the fare difference I mentioned above, makes the CS bedroom in/out of EMY much more valuable than on the CZ.

In an ideal world, Amtrak would allow you to connect west of SAC but with the provision, mentioned above, that the connection is at your own risk and that occupancy of the sleeping car space is on a space available basis at time of boarding. That way if I have a particular bedroom SAC-SEA, Amtrak can still sell it LAX to SAC. But when I board, if it's open, I can have it immediately. But that would be difficult to implement and difficult for many passengers to understand.

But I guess I'll find out when I make the reservation but that won't be until July.
BelmontRef is offline  
Old Dec 30, 2013, 8:10 am
  #10  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Programs: Amtrak Select
Posts: 333
I made my reservation last week for travel in March, heading south on the CS and connecting to the CZ. I booked a 3 zone rommette award.

I am contemplating buying coach tickets from SAC to Davis (or Martinez) and back again, but honestly, it is kind of a hassle. The thing that sucks is if the CS is on time, I arrive in SAC at 6 something in the morning. I probably miss breakfast in the diner. Plus I have five hours to kill in SAC which is kind of a long time.

But at the end of the day I am pretty happy that I get a free trip cross country.

I am not sure if the AGR Insider cares to weigh in publicly on this issue.

Last edited by amamba; Dec 30, 2013 at 8:22 am
amamba is offline  
Old Dec 30, 2013, 2:26 pm
  #11  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, US
Posts: 2,229
Originally Posted by amamba
I made my reservation last week for travel in March, heading south on the CS and connecting to the CZ. I booked a 3 zone rommette award.

I am contemplating buying coach tickets from SAC to Davis (or Martinez) and back again, but honestly, it is kind of a hassle. The thing that sucks is if the CS is on time, I arrive in SAC at 6 something in the morning. I probably miss breakfast in the diner. Plus I have five hours to kill in SAC which is kind of a long time.

But at the end of the day I am pretty happy that I get a free trip cross country.

I am not sure if the AGR Insider cares to weigh in publicly on this issue.
Everything is relative. Sometimes boardings or transfers occur in the middle of the night. This one is relatively benign.

Five hours in SAC is not too bad: it gives you a welcome break and some fresh air from having been on the first train for a long time.

I would check any hand baggage at the station for a modest fee, and then go have breakfast. There is a Perko's at 3rd and J, about 3 blocks from the station, or, for higher-end fare, Grange at 10th and J in the other direction is a good choice.

After breakfast, you could walk a few blocks to the State Capitol (10th and L), or check out Old Sacramento (adjacent to the station, west of the freeway, with a direct walkway from the station). There is also a shopping center, albeit in a bit of decline, at Downtown Plaza, 5th and K, with a Macys.

Before you know it, it will be time to return to the station for Train 6 and a nice trip across the Sierra Nevada.
Reindeerflame is offline  
Old Dec 30, 2013, 10:39 pm
  #12  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Programs: Alaska, Delta, Frontier, SWA, Amtrak GR, Best Western, Choice Hotels, Wyndham
Posts: 33
QUOTE=Reindeerflame;22051929]I would check any hand baggage at the station for a modest fee, and then go have breakfast. There is a Perko's at 3rd and J, about 3 blocks from the station, or, for higher-end fare, Grange at 10th and J in the other direction is a good choice.[/QUOTE]

Last time I was thru SAC in November, they didn't charge to store baggage. Maybe because it was due to traveling FC.

Perko's is great being close in. My other go-to place either way on the CZ is the Capitol Garage (15 - K) downtown near capitol.

http://www.capitolgarage.com/[

Catch the bus right @ Amtrak and get off at 15 - J, walk one block. I think light-rail stops a few blocks away also. If not walking, catch bus back to Amtrak on L St..

Wifi, outside seating, may still have Jazz during week in evening by college students.

Last edited by RoboTraveler; Dec 30, 2013 at 10:50 pm Reason: Left out link
RoboTraveler is offline  
Old Jan 2, 2014, 10:49 am
  #13  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: United States
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Amtrak
Posts: 4,647
Originally Posted by jobtraklite
1. No one is asking Amtrak to guarantee a riskier than needed connection. An AGR member would certainly know enough to bail if #5 were running late. In fact anyone who knows enough about Amtrak not to be forced into changing in SAC would know to bail.
Perhaps. But any connection other than SAC would have to be explicitly (in writing) NOT guaranteed. Because we can all imagine someone on a late-running Zephyr purposely missing the connection, then claiming that Amtrak needs to put them up in a hotel in EMY since the guaranteed connection was broken.

Originally Posted by jobtraklite
2. #5 is discharge only at SAC and west.
I realize that. But that doesn't mean the person taking the additional joy ride isn't taking up revenue space. If there are two roomettes remaining on #5 heading west out of Denver...and the first roomette is only available to SAC, but the second to EMY, and person #1 is making the connection to #14 in SAC but books himself to EMY, then he is blocking a revenue room from SAC to EMY. If person #2 comes along an hour later and tries to book DEN-EMY it will show up as sold-out. Person #2 says screw it, and hops on Southwest airlines. Thus, the joyride from SAC-EMY has cost Amtrak that revenue and the room from DEN-SAC goes out empty.

Far-fetched scenario? Not really.


Originally Posted by jobtraklite
3. By your logic AGR shouldn't exist because any reward takes up revenue space.
I believe BelmontRef has adequately explained this.

Originally Posted by jobtraklite
4. The R in AGR stands for reward not punishment. Getting to bed after midnight waiting for a late CS is punishment in my book.
Then don't book this connection. @:-)
fairviewroad is offline  
Old Jan 2, 2014, 11:53 am
  #14  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 200
Originally Posted by fairviewroad
I realize that. But that doesn't mean the person taking the additional joy ride isn't taking up revenue space. If there are two roomettes remaining on #5 heading west out of Denver...and the first roomette is only available to SAC, but the second to EMY, and person #1 is making the connection to #14 in SAC but books himself to EMY, then he is blocking a revenue room from SAC to EMY. If person #2 comes along an hour later and tries to book DEN-EMY it will show up as sold-out. Person #2 says screw it, and hops on Southwest airlines. Thus, the joyride from SAC-EMY has cost Amtrak that revenue and the room from DEN-SAC goes out empty.

Far-fetched scenario? Not really.
Actually, it is far-fetched. How could a room be open DEN-SAC but booked SAC-EMY? Since no boardings can be sold from SAC west, all stations from SAC to EMY should have the same availability.

But it did make me think that from the view of not needlessly blocking salable space, the idea of buying a Roseville-EMY coach ticket is the least optimal to Amtrak as potentially you could be taking the last seat Roseville-SAC. Even "force selling" a SAC-EMY coach ticket is potentially revenue blocking. Allowing an unreserved coach ticket to be used for continuing passengers is the best and then letting you stay in the room they know will be vacant is the best.
BelmontRef is offline  
Old Jan 2, 2014, 12:34 pm
  #15  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: United States
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Amtrak
Posts: 4,647
Originally Posted by BelmontRef
Actually, it is far-fetched. How could a room be open DEN-SAC but booked SAC-EMY? Since no boardings can be sold from SAC west, all stations from SAC to EMY should have the same availability.
Perhaps I did not describe it well. In my scenario, there are TWO available rooms. "Room A" is available from DEN-SAC and "Room B" is available DEN-EMY.

Our connecting passenger books his ticket 48 hours prior to departure from DEN. He tells Amtrak he'd like to connect in EMY despite having no reason (other than personal pleasure) to be on the train west of SAC. The Amtrak agent naturally books him in Room A, which is the only available room between DEN and EMY.

Passenger #2 calls Amtrak 47 hours prior to departure and says he'd like to buy a room from DEN to EMY. The agent pulls up the manifest and sees that there is no availability from DEN to EMY. Passenger #2 cannot purchase a room from DEN-SAC and then move to a coach seat in SAC, because the computer will not allow "boardings" from SAC westward. And even if this could be "forced", the phone agent will probably not suggest it or the passenger will not agree to it. Ultimately, passenger #2 is told he cannot book a room from DEN-EMY.

Therefore, the joyriding passenger #1 is preventing Amtrak from selling space between SAC-EMY. Of course, it is entirely possible that a Passenger #3 will call Amtrak 46 hours prior to departure and purchase a room from DEN-SAC, which would mostly erase the revenue-loss caused by turning away Passenger #2.

Anyhow, it's a bit complicated but I think it's clear that allowing joyrides west of SAC for connecting passengers does have the potential for blocking other travelers. On any given day, is this happening? Probably not. But I'm just saying that it could. There's really no upside for Amtrak to allow guaranteed connections west of SAC, other than the intangible benefit of making people happy.
fairviewroad is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.