wobbly wings

Just got a few awards on hold including a:
EWR-DFW-MEX (stop) CTM (oj) MID-MEX-MIA-JFK.
Not the best itinary I know (might change the MID-JFK into a direct CUN-JFK) but it was no issue to put it in. And I have a similar one with a different agent who confirmed it's fine.

One question I do have is about US routings and double OJs. It would be useful for me to change the above into a simpler: LAX-MEX (stop) CTM (oj) CUN-JFK-LAX. With the intention of walking it in JFK. Any chance I can persuade them to route me over to JFK then to back to LAX? Obviously
LAX-MEX (stop) CTM (oj) CUN-JFK is not allowed because of the double oj.

Thanks.

jridge

The way I understand it, you are allowed an open jaw at the origin or destination on partner awards, but not both. So you would be allowed an open jaw for an intra-region award.

I believe there is a definition of an open jaw somewhere that says the distance of the open jaw must be less than the distance from origin to destination, so that (for example) LHR-ZRH-FCO would not be allowed because of the large distance between LHR and FCO relative to the other segments. But I don't know the exact wording.

JonNYC

Several people pointed out that the "tables" in the All-AA awards rules were hard to read as the formatting that would make it a table was missing. Apparently, the rule, simply, is this:

4-hour rule: 50 US, Canada, PR, US Virgin Isles.
24-hour rule: All other.

Austinrunner

Here is my latest attempt to format and interpret the rules in JonNYC's last post:

ROUTING RULES FOR ALL-PARTNER AWARDS USING AMERICAN AIRLINES MILES

Part 1: General Rules

(1) If there is a non-stop flight that departs after the 4/6 hour window (determined as listed in the parts below) and arrives at the destination earlier than a connecting flight within the 4/6 hour window, the passenger may be booked on the non–stop flight. It is not necessary to check every flight/carrier to ensure passenger is booked on the next scheduled flight.

(2) When selling seats for through flights and the desired inventory is not available, you cannot opt to sell the flight point-to-point. If sold point-to-point, the error response "MULTIPLE SEGMENTS FOR SAME FLIGHT - SELL AS ONE SEGMENT" will be received, indicating this booking is not allowed. Overriding the error check by ending the PNR twice is not acceptable.

Part 2: Within North America

(1) An award wholly within North America is valid on any partner airline that markets and operates its own service within North America.

(2) Travel between two cities in the United States via Canada or Mexico is not allowed.

(3) Travel between two cities in Canada via the United States is not allowed. Travel between two cities in Mexico via the United States is not allowed.

(4) Passenger must travel the most direct routing.

(5) Passenger has 4 hours to connect. If there are no scheduled flights within 4 hours, regardless of availability, the passenger must take the next scheduled flight but may not exceed 24 hours. Any connection of more than 24 hours is always considered a stopover.

(6) Mexicana Airlines may not be used on a non-stop flight between Mexico and Canada.

(7) Award travel between Hawaii and North America does not include inter-island flights. Inter-island award travel allows a maximum of two flight segments.

(8) A stopover is allowed within Mexico for travel wholly within Mexico, as Mexico is considered to be part of North America.

Part 3: Between North America and Other Regions

(1) Award travel between North America and another region is allowed on any combination of carriers, except as noted below.

(2) Passenger must use most direct routing.

(3) Hawaiian Airlines may not be used.

(4) British Airways may be used for transatlantic travel to or from only Canada, the Caribbean, Mexico, Central America, or South America.

(5) Travel between North America and Europe, Africa, or the Indian Sub-Continent/Middle East must be via the Atlantic.

(6) Travel between North America and either Asia or the South Pacific must be via the Pacific.

(7) Travel between North America and either Fiji or Papeete may not be via Australia or New Zealand.

(8) Travel between North America and Easter Island must be via Papeete unless two awards are used.

(9) Transpacific travel between North America and either Guam or Saipan must be on American Airlines.

(10) Passenger has 6 hours to connect. If there are no scheduled flights within 6 hours, regardless of availability, the passenger must take the next scheduled flight but may not exceed 24 hours. Any connection of more than 24 hours is always considered a stopover.

Part 4: Travel Wholly Within (or Between) Regions Other Than North America

(1) These awards do not allow a connection via North America and, therefore, do not include travel on American Airlines.

(2) Passenger must travel the most direct routing.

(3) Passenger has 6 hours to connect. If there are no scheduled flights within 6 hours, regardless of availability, the passenger must take the next scheduled flight but may not exceed 24 hours. Any connection of more than 24 hours is always considered a stopover.

Part 5: Travel Via a Third Region

(1) Travel via a third region is not allowed, with the exceptions listed below.

(2) Travel between Europe and the South Pacific may include a connection in Tokyo-Narita (Asia 1), Osaka (Asia 1), Singapore (Asia 2), or Bangkok (Asia 2). A stopover in any of those cities is not allowed.

(3) Travel between North America and the Indian Sub-Continent/Middle East may include a connection in Europe.

(4) Travel between North America and Africa may include a connection in Europe.

(5) Travel between North America and Asia 2 may include a connection in Asia 1.

(6) Travel between Central/South America Zone 1 and the Indian Sub-Continent/Middle East may include a connection in Europe.

(7) Travel between South America Zone 2 and the Indian Sub-Continent/Middle East may include a connection in Europe.

(8) Travel between Central/South America Zone 1 and Africa may include a connection in Europe.

(9) Travel between South America Zone 2 and Africa may include a connection in Europe.

(10) Travel between Central/South America Zone 1 and the South Pacific may include a connection in South America Zone 2.

(11) Travel between South America Zone 2 and the Indian Sub-Continent/Middle East may include a connection in Europe.

(12) Travel between the Indian Sub-Continent/Middle East and Asia 1 may include a connection in Asia 2.

(13) Travel between the Indian Sub-Continent/Middle East and the South Pacific may include a connection in Asia 2.

(14) Travel between Africa and Asia 1 may include a connection in Asia 2.

(15) Travel between Asia 1 and Europe may include a connection in Asia 2.

(16) Travel between Asia 1 and the South Pacific may include a connection in Asia 2.

(17) Travel on LanPeru direct flights between North America and South America Zone 2 are allowed. Currently, only one market (flights between Miami and Buenos Aires) has direct service. These flights may be booked only by the liaisons. Contact support for booking assistance.

Part 6: Definitions of Zones

(1) North America: USA (including Hawaii and Alaska), Canada, Mexico, Bermuda, The Bahamas, the Caribbean.

(2) Central/South America Zone 1: Belize, Colombia, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Ecuador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Panama, Peru, Venezuela.

(3) South America Zone 2: Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile (excluding Easter Island), Paraguay, Uruguay.

(4) Europe: Albania, Armenia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Belgium, Bosnia-Herzegovinia, Bulgaria, Canary Islands, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Georgia, Gibraltar, Greece, Greenland, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Macedonia, Malta, Moldova, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine, United Kingdom, Yugoslavia.

(5) Indian Sub-Continent/Middle East: Afghanistan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Egypt, India, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Oman, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, the United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan.

(6) Africa: Algeria, Angola, Benin, Botswana, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cameroon, Cape Verde, Central African Republic, Chad, Democratic Republic of Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Gabon, Gambia, Ghana, Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Ivory Coast, Kenya, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Madagascar, Malawi, Mali, Mauritania, Mauritius, Melilla, Morocco, Mozambique, Namibia, Niger, Nigeria, Republic of Congo, Reunion, Rwanda, Senegal, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Somalia, South Africa, Sudan, Swaziland, Tanzania, Togo, Tunisia, Uganda, Zambia, Zimbabwe.

(7) Asia 1: China (excluding Hong Kong), Japan, Korea, Mongolia.

(8) Asia 2: Bhutan, Brunei, Guam, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, Nepal, the Philippines, Saipan, Singapore, Sri Lanka, Taiwan, Thailand, Vietnam.

(9) South Pacific: Australia, Easter Island, Fiji, French Polynesia (including Papeete), New Caledonia, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Republic of Tonga, Western Samoa.

Val

Guys, the charts are not so tough to read. Here is an example of exceptions to travel via a third region. So, you are allowed to go from NA to Middle East via Europe.
Or, for those who were here during "S-I-M-P-L-I-F-I-C-A-T-I-O-N", you can go from NA to Asia2 via Asia1.

Altaflyer

I am having a heck of a time getting from YYZ to LAX on a multi-carrier award on Dec 29th. I asked about the El Al non-stop YYZ-LAX and was told it was not a valid carrier for this sector. The rules don't seem to say it would be invalid. Proposed itin is very nice: CDG-LHR-YYZ/YYZ-LAX-LIH/KOA-LAX-CDG (on Air Tahiti Nui no less ). Anyone know if the agent is right re: El Al? For revenue they actually have local carriage rights on that sector. I can't believe that itin can be had for 40,000 miles when a mainland to Hawaii costs 35,000!!!

Also tried YYZ-DFW-Fayetteville,AR-LAX and was shot down on the indirect routing clause. Fayetteville indirect? Really?

JIMCHI

I have a copy of the All Partner rules and there is nothing I can find that excludes YYZ-LAX on El Al. Call again, preferably during the day and on weekdays when the most experienced agents are usually on duty.

JonNYC

But we have heard of this exclusion before.

johnep1

Right now I have a DCA-DFW(stopover)-ZRH(stopover)-PRG-ZRH-MIA-DCA J award. I am thinking of changing the day of the DFW-ZRH flight, but the AA nonstop is not available on the new day. I would therefore need to fly DFW-JFK-ZRH. Would I still be able to have the DFW stopover if I was not on the nonstop DFW-ZRH flight?

JonNYC

I don't see any reason why not-- at least from what I can see-- you're only transiting at JFK. BTW, did you check for avail. on LX from JFK-ZRH (^^)?

johnep1

Thanks Jon. I guess I read the part about the stopover only being allowed in the gateway city to mean the city from which I depart the US. I thought that changing this city from DFW to JFK might make a DFW stopover against the rules.

And yes, I checked LX availability on the swiss site. Lots of availability through ZRH. Even managed to get award tickets to FCO for August 3 by flying LX instead of AA.

JonNYC

Oops-- maybe you're right... I'm -not- an expert in these things, you better check (or just try and make the booking and see what happens) I really wish I knew, but I don't.

GUWonder

Would it be correct to say that PRG is your final destination in the above itinerary? That is to say, DCA-DFW(stopover)-JFK-ZRH(stopover)-PRG(final destination)-ZRH-MIA-DCA?

Therefore, if AA considers DFW your North American gateway, then it won't be an issue; however, if AA considers JFK your North American gateway, then it may well be an issue. In any event, YMMV and please do inform us if AA lets it occur.

If DCA-DFW(stopover)-JFK-ZRH(stopover)-PRG(final destination)-ZRH-MIA-DCA is correct, then you are allowed a stopover at the N. American gateway and a stopover at your international gateway of ZRH. It depends on how AA defines your N. American gateway city (i.e., is DFW the N. American gateway, is JFK the N. American gateway or can either be considered the N. American gateway city). I've thought that the city from which you leave the US is considered the gateway city (i.e., JFK under a revised itinerary).

I'll check to see if I have an old AAdvantage award itinerary where I've stopped in O'Hare before flying out of MIA or DFW for overseas, but I cannot recall one off the top of my head. UPDATED: Can't find one where I did.

johnep1

I just got off the phone with a great AA agent. I asked if I could change DFW-ZRH to DFW-JFK-ZRH and he quickly replied that if I did that, I couldn't stopover in DFW since my gateway city would then be JFK. He then tried for about 5 minutes to find something else that got me to PRG. I didn't fully realize what he was trying to do, and when I told him that PRG was the destination and ZRH was a stopover in Europe, he said that I couldn't even do DFW-LGW-ZRH because a stopover in ZRH wasn't allowed if LGW was the European gateway city. We already have the hotels paid for ($20 glitch hotel in ZRH) so we can't reverse the order of the cities (which would solve all problems since we could then go DCA-DFW-LGW-PRG-ZRG-MIA-DCA with stopovers in DFW and ZRH).

The agent spent a lot of time trying many different options, and we concluded that it's likely best to just buy a one-way BWI-DFW ticket for $140 and then get an open jaw DFW-JFK-ZRH-PRG-ZRH-MIA-DCA.

So, for future reference, the stopover can only be in the city from which you depart the US or in the city to which you return.

LH747FTL

I'm planning a F award BKK-IPC (Easter Island). It seems to be 90K - Asia 2 to South Pacific. Not really familiar with the rules (and BKK office probably isn't either), so a few question I hope somebody could answer.

I'd prefer to route

BKK-HKG CX F
HKG-SYD CX F
SYD-AKL LA F
AKL-PPT TN F
PPT-IPC LA C (no F on this flight)

Will AA try force me to take BA/QF nonstop instead of CX? Also, do I need to take the nonstop TN flight from SYD?

Thanks in advance.