Aloha1

Certainly not the intent. Food is an easy thing to fix. Since DP won't fix it, you have to conclude he won't fix anything else. I have choices in my travel partners and I will not put up with a carrier that thinks it's top paying customers are nothing more than cattle.

jordyn

I bet AA can do this poll themselves if they want. It's called market research.

cmd320

So you're suggesting AA offer a true W class on domestic flights? Just out of curiosity how exactly would that differ from domestic F?

ubernostrum

I'm saying the reason I don't fly BA a ton is that I'm not as often going places where BA metal is an option, and that the only thing that makes me hesitate about taking BA metal for flights where it is available is the awfulness of LHR.

For TATL, if AA had a true premium economy, I'd be instantly set on taking AA metal everywhere. Having a bearable long-haul Y product is something I sort of expect from a so-called "premium" carrier, and matters quite a lot more to me than whether I'm getting a grade D or a grade D+ plank of reheated chicken, since I can't guarantee I'll always win the SWU lottery or be able to book into J.

cmd320

There's plenty of other options out there that offer W which you can book directly into. AF, LH, AZ are a few options on the Atlantic side. AA really doesn't have any European destinations that aren't covered by one of those carriers. Understand though that a W product is not a bearable long haul Y product, it's a completely different class of service. Y+ would be a bearable long haul Y product. There are very few airlines that offer a truly decent Y product, at least IMO. If AA isn't offering the product you're looking for, the best option is to give your business to an airline that is.

ElmhurstNick

BA's current 787 W is indistinguishable from United's 1991 J. Maybe 1" less pitch, made up for with power and an entertainment system.

On the old 777s, BA W is more like a CR7 F on the two-seat side, but with annoying video box under the seat that really only affects very tall people like me.

I'm a snob who won't fly regular Y or even MCE transatlantic. But after flying BA W (well, really T) by necessity last year over a peak week with no awards, I am perfectly fine booking the 787 from EWR/PHL-LHR if I can't use a SWU to book Y->J on AA.

Stripy

I'm sure they can but I don't see how that would help with this discussion right now....unless you happens to know someone at AA whos happy to (a) do the market research and (b) let us know the exact results?

Beyond that I'm not sure I understand your point.

CLTRob

I agree totatly with your comments. Living in Charlotte, I would rather fly non-stop to Europe on AA/US; however, with no true Premium Economy, and no true Economy Comfort for that matter, I have concluded that I won't be purchasing any more transatlantic travel on AA/US.

Delta is the only US based airline that comes close to providing a Premium Economy section. Granted the seats aren't any wider; however they do provide:

- 4" more leg room
- 50% more recline (international only)
- dedicated over-head bin space
- no charge for beer, wine and spirits
- upgraded meal service
- enhanced entertainment
- amenity kit that includes eye shades, ear plugs, etc.
- hot towels before each meal service (international and in all of coach)

On AA/US and UA, the most you will get is 5" of room. Also, I have noticed that AA charges more for the 5" than Delta does for all of the above.

Another reason I've concluded that Delta is the best option for me, for international travel, is that they offer more aircraft with 2-3-2 and 2-4-2 layouts, and more on order. If you read the comments on Seatguru and Skytrax regarding AA's economy section on the B772 and B773, they are not positive comments. You can include the A319 of AA too as the comments are very negative. If you read the comments regarding UA's economy section on the B787, the name Dreamliner has been changed to Nightmare Liner. Have read that this aircraft is very uncomfortable.

From everything that I have read in the past, DP isn't a fan of MCE. It appears he is only keeping it because AA started it to be competivie with DL and UA. I wouldn't expect more that the 5" in the future.

Also, when flying Skyteam, you have the option of AF, AZ and VA who do offer a true Premium Economy. Even though the round-trip is approximately $2,700, that is a big difference in a round-trip in business for $6,000.

I know that many are upset with DL for the changes to their FF program; however, to Europe, in most cases, I actually earn more (base) miles than I do on AA and UA. The areas where I will earn less is east coast to west coast US travel, and beyond Europe. Even so, on a long haul flight, I will go for comfort over number of miles earned. Also, even though I am US Gold and AA Plat, I find those upgrades to first are very seldom occurrences. I would rather be assured a comfortable seat in economy, Comfort Plus that is, instead of a gamble to get in first.

jordyn

I'm saying asserting that all or most elites agree with some particular point of view is probably not going to be answered by discussion on FlyerTalk. Feel free to state your own opinion, but given that there's clearly people here who would like a true E+ option, it seems like a stretch to have asserted that most EXPs would agree with you without any real data one way or the other.

cmd320

I think it's important to differentiate the term E+ from the class typically coded as W. In actuality, MCE is a true E+ product, just like EC on DL and E+ on UA. For those saying they want a true E+ product, you've got one. For those wanting a premium economy (W) product, look at the many European and Asian carriers which offer such a product.

jordyn

While I agree that it's probably helpful to say "true premium economy" rather than "true E+", I think it's unreasonable to call MCE a "true E+" product. These are all just marketing distinctions, but it's clear what people are talking about here is a product with considerably more room and better food/drink (and possibly better ground handling, although I think most of the US carriers mostly bundle this already).

ElmhurstNick

What many people want is the level of service of narrowbody domestic F on a long-haul transoceanic fleet, at a similar price point CPM to domestic F. That would translate to about $1300-$1500 from the Midwest US to western Europe.

Stripy

You seem to be saying that I'm "free to state [my] own opinion" but at the same time you say that my opinion is an "assertion" that should not be made without data. Either I'm free to state it or I'm not - which is it to be?

To clarify: nowhere did I claim anything as fact. I merely said that I'd be prepared to bet that the majority of EXPs would prefer to keep Y to J upgrades rather then have a full-blown PE cabin. That is my opinion. You may well disagree with it (your prerogative) but as my statement was indicating a willingness to 'bet' on something it was clearly pre-empting any sort of scientific data mining. So, as I said, you may think me foolish to be prepared to make such a 'bet' but I'm more than free to make it with or without hard data.

(for the record I'm basing my belief on nothing more then the fact that SWUs seem to get named the most popular benefit out of all FF perks every time there is a poll - and that can't just be J to F upgraders skewing the results).

AANYC1981

Yes DL is the best domestic US carrier for intl.....no arguing that

CLTRob

A friend of mine who lives in NYC, who travels overseas on business 3 out 4 weeks per month (Asia, Middle East, South America and Europe), use to fly AA and UA but pretty much gave up on both. He recently told me that he is flying DL as much as possible due to the higher level of service they provide.