Goldorak

I just posted a couple of info in the lounge thread.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/28311257-post428.html

mike-88

Guys, now I'm a little bit confuesed - taking into consideration, that M lounge is closed in the evening, L lounge is very limited in terms of capacity, which lounge is better to use, have a 3 hour connection from 2E to 2F?

SEA-Flyer

If you're arriving in 2E and departing from 2F, you'll need to use the lounge in 2F.

mike-88

as discussed before, theoretically I may also use any lounge in 2E, but it seems, that M will be closed and L very limited...

Goldorak

No, SEA-Flyer gave you the right answer.

BenA

Unfortunately, this is true. I was summarily rejected in 2E when I had a flight departing 2F. Despite being able to physically access the lounge, and despite me pointing out 2F was a disaster at the time due to renovations, the agents still said they weren't permitted to let me in. The usual attempt to point out SkyTeam Elite Plus rules fell on extremely deaf ears.

Goldorak

in this case this is not about Skyteam rules for lounge access, but terminal access policies with security and immigration control constraints. 2E is non-Schengen with a strict separation of arrival and departure flows, while 2F is Schengen.

San Gottardo

It is true that 2F is Schengen and 2E is not, and the various immigration/security channels should control the flow in such a way as to have only those people in the various parts of the terminal that the authorities want there.

But:

The passengers managed to be at the entrance of the 2E lounge, so he must have been complying with immigration and security rules, so what is AF's problem not to let him in? Do they play police instead of the police and contradict the police who apparently let him get to the 2E lounge (I use "police" as a proxy for the entire immigration/security check setup)? Although I'd be curious how one manages to get to the 2E lounge when flying from 2F. Not as a transfer pax arriving at 2E, because security at 2E would have refused him passage when seeing his connecting boarding pass for a flight leaving from 2F; and not as a pax originating from Paris because he even wouldn't have made it through 2E immigration. So how does it work?

----

On a related note, I find the whole Schengen/non-Schengen argument not a compelling reason not to be allowed to certain parts of the terminal. When I leave the Schengen part I go through immigration and I cross the border. If I have the proper passport, what rule is there that bars me from crossing the border as I please and leave the country freely? Why do I need to have a "reason", which is to take a flight from behind the border crossing? There is no such thing in the law. Surely when asking the question someone would just bellow "for security reasons" but that's meaningless because whether I fly to Madrid or Montevideo the security checks are the same - so as long as I have the papers that allow me to cross the border, as long as I clear security, what "security reasons" are there?

Also, customs reasons shouldn't be a problem. If I buy something in the duty free shops of the non-Schengen area, then I have to pass through customs when re-entering the Schengen area. Plus, I am not sure whether there are different prices in the duty free shops for people traveling to a non-EU destination vs. those traveling to EU destination, but that distinction is made by scanning people's boarding passes. It's not non-Schengen vs. Schengen that makes the difference, it's EU membership of the final destination. Otherwise someone traveling to Dublin (EU, but not Schengen) would pay less than someone traveling to Oslo (Schengen, but not EU), which wouldn't make sense.

I would buy the capacity control argument of lounges, but seriously, how many people are that would make huge detours to use the lounge in 2E-M when their flight is from 2F? All those constraints for a few lounge hoppers?

Looks like random "we constrain you because we can" with a blanket "security" argument thrown in, which is supposed to be killing off all other arguments.

Mirk

I confirm I was able to access the K lounge despite having a flight leaving from L.

San Gottardo

At what time of the day was that? And was there any problem going through security, did the people there know about the lounge situatoin and let you through? And afterwards, how did you transfer to the L gates, with that bus that is mentioned in the AF communication?

Thanks. Just asking because I have quite frequent flights from L gates these coming weeks, and the breakfast selection in the L lounges is not great, so I'd rather use K (I just assume it's better there). But somehow I lived under the impression that the K lounges could only be used in the evening hours.

Mirk

It was at noon and all the staff was aware of that and were amazing.
I first talked to the transfer desk in L to confirm this was possible which they did. I took the little automatic shuttle to K, went to the priority screening lane, she scanned my BP as I was telling her I knew it was the wrong pier but I was going to the lounge there. She was obviously aware as she let me go along with my guest without further scanning.
Same during security check. The agent was aware and we had a discussion about what was being shown on his screen.

Finally, I asked at the entrance of the lounge for the procedure to walk out of the K pier, they indicated me to go for the lane used by the crew (first on on the right when you walk back from the lounge) and they've let us walk through without any issue. Then, shuttle back to L and security again.

Top notch all the way for once!

carnarvon

Can you share with us how you managed to enter the departure area of 2E when your flight was leaving from 2F?

Without disrespect (maybe there was a communication issue), are you sure you do not mean checking in from 2F (but flight actually leaving from 2E) and the issue for the lounge entrance was not 2E or 2F, but K, L or M?

Where did you come from (originating in CDG or connecting)?

Where were you flying to?

BTW, was it 2E-K, L or M?

Nico40

There is a "hidden" entrance to that lounge (well, not so hidden as it is advertised) in the corridor between 2F and L. That's the reason why you can physically enter the lounge :
- when connecting between L gates and 2F (or between M and 2F but in that cas you should take the CDG-Val to L first, not the direct shuttle and then you pass security ad the "arrivals" level of L). Technically you clear security at L and altough not at the same level than the departing passengers from L gates, both zones are connected (either via the lounge or via stairs).
- obviously, when connecting between 2F and L (but in that case you can access directly the lounge for the corridor).

Of course you have passed security (either at the departing airport if connecting from 2F or 20 metres away if connecting from 2L) and you're non the non-Schengen part of the airport. So no breach at all.


Historically, that hidden entrance was created when the NRT redeye was shifted at 3am instead of 5 (in 2011 or so). Thus the eligibile pax could use that lounge as arriving passengers, as no other option was available at that early hour. That flight no longer exists (as there is no curfew at HND) but the lounge access has been remaining.

On ~15 occasions I've accessed the lounge that way and I've been denied twice.

Mladyfred

Disappointing. I am returning from India on Jan 8, so I will just miss the new lounge opening!

Goldorak

in any case, you cannot be sure to have the opportunity to try it if you don't have a flight departing from L and you cannot know this in advance.