sp4294

I actually agree that a favourable brand is not necessarily important to AC's financial success, because they are still operating in a semi-competitive market place domestically, trans-border to US and to some extent internationally. Our market is small and we have essentially one other competing airline domestically. The trans-border market is seemingly not attractive, so the incentives to operate and to compete for market share here are of limited appeal for foreign carriers. Add to that the TATL JVs for example, and AC is quite protected and survives no matter what it does due to sheer size and impact. Regardless of whether they hate AC or love it, people still need to fly. AC can really do what it wants.

Using Spirit and even Ryan Air as an argument, however, is specious at best IMO. These companies do well, because they consistently market and provide the cheapest product for the consumer. Negative connotations about brand are offset by delivery of value in the eyes of their target audience.

IMO it has not been proven that AC/Rouge is in anyway the same as these carriers, nor is the product consistent for the consumer across the entire company at this time. That creates confusion.

I get that it is all about saving money for the airline. No issues with that. But what about the end user? If it is not price, then what differentiates this product from the rest of the competition in the long term? It certainly isn't comfort now or the all important Aeroplan points. You already stated that loyalty is not important.

Convenience? Perhaps.

And if the product's primary aim of Rouge is to be of the same lower standard as all the rest (in order to conserve costs), then what makes it stand out and be successful with consumers among the competition?

How did WS manage to succeed in this respect? We all agree that they don't offer Spirit like prices and people bemoan their comfort. However, they certainly seem to be a company that has a culture that values and markets their brand. Why is that? Am I wrong there? Why does it seem important to them to make innovate Christmas promotion videos that make them look friendly and customer focused? Why waste resources on their brand if it is not important to the bottom line?
(An honest question)

martyYOW

Ok - I've been searching and can't find this answer. After saying I would never fly Rouge willingly (again) I got scheduled on AC1851 from YYZ to LAS. When trying to choose a seat, rows 14 and 15 show as preferred seating - anyone have an idea of the seat pitch in those rows? its a 767 but I can't find any info on pitch.

winnipegrev

Depends if the ex-Hawaiian 763s fins 691/692 or not... if it is fins 631-636 (winglets and 24J), it is 35" rows 12-15. 691/692 they are regular Y seats.

martyYOW

Thanks - I am pretty sure its the ex-Hawaii 767s. If I click on the seat map it shows the new config but seat selection tool looks like the old 767 layout especially given 12-15 are all listed as preferred.

winnipegrev

If 12-15 are all showing preferred, it should be a wingletted plane and therefore 35" slimline seats.

CloudsBelow

I'm having a hard time following. Are you saying AC can offer substandard product because the Canadian market is only "semi-competitive"?

If so, What does this point of your post mean? :

The original point one poster made is "anyone who thinks brand doesn't matter doesn't know the airline business or business in general" or some grand statement like that. Every company wants to be highly regarded, obviously. Every "highly regarded" airline hemorrhaging money would gladly return some of that high regard for profit.
The same day Westjet recorded that video, they had a 737-800 in the shop cramming more seats into the same space.

bizorbetter

LOL +1 ^

grov

It's interesting following the more recent Rouge discussions and comparing them to Qantas and their cheaper discount sibling Jetstar in Australia. Qantas is doing badly mainly because it has focused far too much on Jetstar, allowing its main domestic rival Virgin Australia to steal business by offering lie-flat beds in J on longer domestic flights, and offering far better service.
Having just flown Premier Rouge to Las Vegas and about to return, I'm not looking forward to the flight back. The service out was bad, with FAs swilling from the water bottles, ignoring passengers and focusing on their staff friends occupying most of row 4. No offers of any drinks after the pre-flight glass, but their mates had drinks. Front overhead bins are used to store extra galley items, so passengers have to stuff their bags into the other bins. Movie choices limited on the iPads. Aircraft was hot and stuffy. Next time I will pay more to travel with somebody else.

bizorbetter

Thats the new norm with the Rouge concept sadly.

"Movie choices limited on the iPads"......you are being nice, most of the movies were older than the FA's

Hope your luck was good in LAS at least!

Safti

Darn.... what does that mean in terms of movie watching?

SEMM

SOL!...no movies/IFE only Ipad streaming...

Diabeetus

I have a question about meals.

I will be taking a Rouge flight to Europe (at least it's a 763), and was wondering if anyone has experience with the meal service in Premium Rouge?

- Same as mainline TATL/TPAC?
- Same as domestic J?
- Or choice of standard pay-on-board fare?

edinv

I sampled Premium rouge over EDI/YYZ/EDI last Oct. I also had domestic J over YYC/YYZ on the same booking.

I have to say more professionalism and presentation on domestic J.

With rouge choice of main meal, similar to domestic J. Wine on rouge was at the time of my flights dispensed in small individual bottles - take 2 unless they say they will offer more!! No need or opportunity to pay for food or drink in Premium rouge.

The rouge presentation outbound EDI/YYZ was fairly good - they tried hard. Inbound YYZ/EDI poor, the FAs appeared to be more interested in having a staff meeting rather than dealing with the PAX!

- I am trying them again, same route, in Premium Sep 14.

Diabeetus

^

Thanks. Definitely sounds like the Rouge FA's are going through a learning process.

Good to know about the wine!

mikeycanuk

If anyone is interested YYZ-BGI near the holidays is now a 763. Just checked and had to redo the whole seat selection for the THIRD time. No warning as to my preferred seat selection was SOL, no refund, no warning, zilch.
Thankfully there were still seats available. My wife is just ahead/across of us in premium rouge. Lots more "j" seats now but no extra award seats. Humph. On the super plus side my 45min connection in BGI is now 90mins as the flight leaves earlier, whew! Deicing is always a possible 45min delay in December