Air Canada to pay $12K to Ottawa couple over lack of French services
Oct 28, 2014, 4:40 pm
#406
Formerly known as tireman77
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,517
Back to my original post, when I'm flying on a flight in Western Canada there are hardly any French speaking people. Why should the crew have to learn another language and required to serve in a different language in a part of Canada where no one speaks French?
I can see the relevance in/out of French speaking regions of Canada, but not other areas. People from Eastern Canada sometimes seem to think they are the only part of Canada that matters.
In my opinion, all announcements should be in English only in this part of Canada (unless requested otherwise). There should be 1 FA that speaks enough French to assist a French speaking passenger if needed.
All those French announcements cut into my IFE -- it's just annoying!
I can see the relevance in/out of French speaking regions of Canada, but not other areas. People from Eastern Canada sometimes seem to think they are the only part of Canada that matters.
In my opinion, all announcements should be in English only in this part of Canada (unless requested otherwise). There should be 1 FA that speaks enough French to assist a French speaking passenger if needed.
All those French announcements cut into my IFE -- it's just annoying!
But I will respond to your statement with the same answer I tell people here in Quebec who preach to protect the French language, at the mercy of other languages: We should strive to be 100% bilingual across the board. Teaching anything else is simple cultivating ignorance. Most Europeans I know speak 2, 3 or 4 languages and if they can do it, so can we.
That being said, if an FA (or anyone else for that matter) speaks to me in english or french, I'll answer in whatever language they are more comfortable. I won't expect to be served in a specific language. But saying 'I don't need to learn another language' would bring us one step closer to our southern neighbours in terms of cultural awareness, and I for one find that a little sad.
My 2 cents.
Oct 28, 2014, 4:47 pm
#407
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 812
The Government of Canada did not want to lend the money.
So Air Canada wanted to go private.
The Government of the day held the company to ransom and made them accept being subject to the Official Languages Act.
Oct 28, 2014, 4:56 pm
#408
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: YUL
Posts: 969
I think it's great that you have provided links to the actual decisions. This has been done a half-dozen times in this thread going back over 3 years.
It's simply not helpful though. Folks aren't interested in the boring evidentiary and judicial versions.
They much prefer the sweet & fizzy media version that perpetuates the belief that Monsieur et Madame T and others of their oily Gallic ilk are bothersome stirrers who want to milk the system for millions over obvious trivialities such as competing lemon-lime brands, uniligual traffic tickets and announcements on public transport systems.
It's simply not helpful though. Folks aren't interested in the boring evidentiary and judicial versions.
They much prefer the sweet & fizzy media version that perpetuates the belief that Monsieur et Madame T and others of their oily Gallic ilk are bothersome stirrers who want to milk the system for millions over obvious trivialities such as competing lemon-lime brands, uniligual traffic tickets and announcements on public transport systems.
The reality is irrelevant to that kind of people. Unfortunately NordsFan and Rehoult are losing their time and knowledge.
In any case, Air Canada has been blamed for not respecting its obligations. And the ruling in this specific case only applies to international flights. And that 7up-translation-thing is a ROC legend.
Oct 28, 2014, 5:07 pm
#409
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,393
I'll be the first to agree that the safety briefing is too long in both languages and it annoys me.
But I will respond to your statement with the same answer I tell people here in Quebec who preach to protect the French language, at the mercy of other languages: We should strive to be 100% bilingual across the board. Teaching anything else is simple cultivating ignorance. Most Europeans I know speak 2, 3 or 4 languages and if they can do it, so can we.
That being said, if an FA (or anyone else for that matter) speaks to me in english or french, I'll answer in whatever language they are more comfortable. I won't expect to be served in a specific language. But saying 'I don't need to learn another language' would bring us one step closer to our southern neighbours in terms of cultural awareness, and I for one find that a little sad.
My 2 cents.
But I will respond to your statement with the same answer I tell people here in Quebec who preach to protect the French language, at the mercy of other languages: We should strive to be 100% bilingual across the board. Teaching anything else is simple cultivating ignorance. Most Europeans I know speak 2, 3 or 4 languages and if they can do it, so can we.
That being said, if an FA (or anyone else for that matter) speaks to me in english or french, I'll answer in whatever language they are more comfortable. I won't expect to be served in a specific language. But saying 'I don't need to learn another language' would bring us one step closer to our southern neighbours in terms of cultural awareness, and I for one find that a little sad.
My 2 cents.
Oct 28, 2014, 5:12 pm
#410
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: YUL
Posts: 969
You really don’t see any difference between a Supreme Court decision and a newspaper article? Ever heard about something that is called the rule of law?
Oct 28, 2014, 5:24 pm
#411
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Never home.
Posts: 2,971
This whole back-and-fourth was about whether the 7UP incident took place and if that was a complaint of Thibodeau - which it was. Not the Court's decision itself.
You may also have noticed that the articles are from before the Supreme Court's decision was given, so how could I be referencing them in relation to a decision?
Oct 28, 2014, 5:28 pm
#412
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: YUL
Posts: 969
We are finding it funny he is complaining about receiving a Sprite instead of 7UP. As the quote below shows, he did.
http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/fct/doc/...2011fc876.html
[160] Mr. Thibodeau also criticized the attitude of a flight attendant on the flight from Charlotte to Toronto on May 12, 2009. His affidavit contains the following statements:
[translation]
.........
38. At 11:46 a.m., the flight attendant came by and asked my wife and me, “Anything to drink folks?” Lynda said, “Rien merci” [No, thank you]. I told her “Je vais prendre un 7-Up s.v.p.” [I would like a 7-Up, please]. She served me a Sprite.
http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/fct/doc/...2011fc876.html
[160] Mr. Thibodeau also criticized the attitude of a flight attendant on the flight from Charlotte to Toronto on May 12, 2009. His affidavit contains the following statements:
[translation]
.........
38. At 11:46 a.m., the flight attendant came by and asked my wife and me, “Anything to drink folks?” Lynda said, “Rien merci” [No, thank you]. I told her “Je vais prendre un 7-Up s.v.p.” [I would like a 7-Up, please]. She served me a Sprite.
Oct 28, 2014, 5:37 pm
#413
Join Date: Dec 2007
Programs: A3*G, AT Gold, National Exec Elite
Posts: 76
philelite, I guess you don't agree with the Supreme Court ruling then? They, as well as Air Canada, agreed that Air Canada broke the law and breached its official languages obligations. They only found that Air Canada didn't not have to pay damages since the Montreal Convention limits airlines' liability on international flights. If the flight had been domestic, damages would be due…
Oct 28, 2014, 5:39 pm
#414
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Left
Programs: FT
Posts: 7,285
Of course you're within your right to sue if problems haven't been fixed, and I would encourage such behavior as it's the only way to keep serial-offending companies in check.
However, if you go around with a stopwatch recording every second of every day at work and sue everytime you get paid for 51.8 minutes instead of 52 minutes (and announce each suit with a press release), you may find that the public views you as a more of a nuisance than a labour rights crusader.
However, if you go around with a stopwatch recording every second of every day at work and sue everytime you get paid for 51.8 minutes instead of 52 minutes (and announce each suit with a press release), you may find that the public views you as a more of a nuisance than a labour rights crusader.
We always look out for gotcha claims.
Oct 28, 2014, 6:05 pm
#415
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
But I will respond to your statement with the same answer I tell people here in Quebec who preach to protect the French language, at the mercy of other languages: We should strive to be 100% bilingual across the board. Teaching anything else is simple cultivating ignorance. Most Europeans I know speak 2, 3 or 4 languages and if they can do it, so can we.
That being said, if an FA (or anyone else for that matter) speaks to me in english or french, I'll answer in whatever language they are more comfortable. I won't expect to be served in a specific language. But saying 'I don't need to learn another language' would bring us one step closer to our southern neighbours in terms of cultural awareness, and I for one find that a little sad.
My 2 cents.
That being said, if an FA (or anyone else for that matter) speaks to me in english or french, I'll answer in whatever language they are more comfortable. I won't expect to be served in a specific language. But saying 'I don't need to learn another language' would bring us one step closer to our southern neighbours in terms of cultural awareness, and I for one find that a little sad.
My 2 cents.
tireman77 -
Your comment is worth well above 2 cents. I remind my friends and business associates of the same thing. Frequently. Usually in another language, just in case they don't get it. More importantly, while Americans in the south are only now experiencing the concept of bilingualism in the marketplace, you are right, Canadians had (and may still have) an excellent opportunity to be bilingual if not multi-lingual.
As I wrote upthread
"On every single flight I take with AC, and especially the vast amount in the past year, I find that not only are all announcements in both official languages, but that I am impressed with the fact that on flights to TLV, announcements were also in Hebrew and Arabic, along with cabin crew who spoke these languages. Same with the flights to HND, with Japanese announcements and Japanese and other Asian language crew. Often I find the announcements include the fact that "on this flight, we also have crew who speak Spanish or German" etc.
I think it is great customer service that AC can do this (and I speak 4+ languages). "
Oct 28, 2014, 6:13 pm
#416
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: YYC
Posts: 4,035
Between my job, part of which is litigation management, and my wife, who is a litigator, I spend far too much time with the law for someone who isn't a lawyer.
Oct 28, 2014, 6:23 pm
#417
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: YYC
Posts: 4,035
I'll be the first to agree that the safety briefing is too long in both languages and it annoys me.
But I will respond to your statement with the same answer I tell people here in Quebec who preach to protect the French language, at the mercy of other languages: We should strive to be 100% bilingual across the board. Teaching anything else is simple cultivating ignorance. Most Europeans I know speak 2, 3 or 4 languages and if they can do it, so can we.
That being said, if an FA (or anyone else for that matter) speaks to me in english or french, I'll answer in whatever language they are more comfortable. I won't expect to be served in a specific language. But saying 'I don't need to learn another language' would bring us one step closer to our southern neighbours in terms of cultural awareness, and I for one find that a little sad.
My 2 cents.
But I will respond to your statement with the same answer I tell people here in Quebec who preach to protect the French language, at the mercy of other languages: We should strive to be 100% bilingual across the board. Teaching anything else is simple cultivating ignorance. Most Europeans I know speak 2, 3 or 4 languages and if they can do it, so can we.
That being said, if an FA (or anyone else for that matter) speaks to me in english or french, I'll answer in whatever language they are more comfortable. I won't expect to be served in a specific language. But saying 'I don't need to learn another language' would bring us one step closer to our southern neighbours in terms of cultural awareness, and I for one find that a little sad.
My 2 cents.
Oct 28, 2014, 10:19 pm
#418
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: YUL
Programs: AC SE (*A Gold), Bonvoy Platinum Elite, Hilton Gold, Amex Platinum / AP Reserve, NEXUS, Global Entry
Posts: 5,691
Back to my original post, when I'm flying on a flight in Western Canada there are hardly any French speaking people. Why should the crew have to learn another language and required to serve in a different language in a part of Canada where no one speaks French?
I can see the relevance in/out of French speaking regions of Canada, but not other areas. People from Eastern Canada sometimes seem to think they are the only part of Canada that matters.
In my opinion, all announcements should be in English only in this part of Canada (unless requested otherwise). There should be 1 FA that speaks enough French to assist a French speaking passenger if needed.
All those French announcements cut into my IFE -- it's just annoying!
I can see the relevance in/out of French speaking regions of Canada, but not other areas. People from Eastern Canada sometimes seem to think they are the only part of Canada that matters.
In my opinion, all announcements should be in English only in this part of Canada (unless requested otherwise). There should be 1 FA that speaks enough French to assist a French speaking passenger if needed.
All those French announcements cut into my IFE -- it's just annoying!
But I will respond to your statement with the same answer I tell people here in Quebec who preach to protect the French language, at the mercy of other languages: We should strive to be 100% bilingual across the board. Teaching anything else is simple cultivating ignorance. Most Europeans I know speak 2, 3 or 4 languages and if they can do it, so can we.
Feb 4, 2015, 1:55 pm
#419
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2002
Location: YEG
Programs: HH Silver
Posts: 56,449
http://montrealgazette.com/news/loca...on-the-wrist-2
OTTAWA
Canada’s official languages commissioner has once again criticized Air Canada.
Graham Fraser said Wednesday that the country’s largest airline has satisfactorily implemented just one of 12 recommendations made in 2011 about the service offered in English and French.
The other 11 have been implemented partially or not at all.
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/bus...290795361.html
The airline didn't directly address the commissioner's report, but said its customers are generally very satisfied with its offering of services in English or French.
It pointed to an Ipsos-Reid survey of 2,600 people this year that found 91 per cent of passengers were satisfied or extremely satisfied with its service in the language of the customer's choice. More than half found that the airline had improved its bilingual service in the last year.
Air Canada said it has focused on hiring bilingual employees, but always has trouble finding people with these skills outside of Quebec, Ottawa and Moncton, N.B.
OTTAWA
Canada’s official languages commissioner has once again criticized Air Canada.
Graham Fraser said Wednesday that the country’s largest airline has satisfactorily implemented just one of 12 recommendations made in 2011 about the service offered in English and French.
The other 11 have been implemented partially or not at all.
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/bus...290795361.html
The airline didn't directly address the commissioner's report, but said its customers are generally very satisfied with its offering of services in English or French.
It pointed to an Ipsos-Reid survey of 2,600 people this year that found 91 per cent of passengers were satisfied or extremely satisfied with its service in the language of the customer's choice. More than half found that the airline had improved its bilingual service in the last year.
Air Canada said it has focused on hiring bilingual employees, but always has trouble finding people with these skills outside of Quebec, Ottawa and Moncton, N.B.
Last edited by tcook052; Feb 4, 2015 at 3:49 pm
Mar 15, 2015, 8:48 am
#420
Join Date: May 2012
Location: BKK/SIN/YYZ/YUL
Programs: DL, AC, Bonvoy, Accor, Hilton
Posts: 2,920
What would you make of this incident: Yesterday on the YYZ-HKG flight multiple AC FAs were addressing Jean Charest, former premier of Quebec in english. Would it have killed them to get someone to address him in french. Same for the other francophones in the cabin? He took it all in stride and was non plussed. These weren't the nicest of AC FAs either. The IFE wasn't working for some time so the safety announcement was done mostly in the old fashioned pantomime. The French language announcements seemed mangled to me. I noticed that there were a fair number of people from YUL transfers on the flight. My impression is that AC dropped the ball on its obligations for this flight and had I been a francophone I would have been insulted. The FAs didn't help matters. I can see why some people get so frustrated they lodge official complaints.
Last edited by tcook052; Mar 22, 2015 at 1:26 pm