I just stumbled upon some interesting information, so here's a pop quiz: What is the published full Y return fare on YVR-YYZ?

Answer will be forthcoming when I can embarrass enough people, possibly even myself.

CAD$8498.00

So is everybody at AC embarrassed, or what? What's the deal on that fare? Was it always that high, and I just never noticed. I've been travelling on the $3000-$4000 Y1 fares, and casually assuming that was full Y fare.

Surely, no one actually pays that amount, do they?

Just a very guess. Is that fare what BA and the other airlines were complaining about as far as offering a transfer fare goes?

Full fare J for YYZ-YVR is $9944 CDN!!!

Something more puzzling, they have a F class fare for YYZ-HKG for around $20000. Is that why they call it Executive First -- you can either pay executive class or first class fare but you get the same service. I wonder if someone is asking for that fare, whether the agent will sell it to them?

Other thought:

Maybe this is the fare they set before the merger with CP was approved so they can say they that fares haven't risen at all? $8k YVR-YYZ r/t will have them set for the tenure of the senior managers.

You guys ever look at the price of your hotel room on that little sign on the door. Makes as much sense as these "full fares". I think the airlines have gotten themselves into a real mess with all their tariffs and fares, particularly since they've been deregulated. But then, most products tend to have outrageous SLPs [suggested list prices], who shouldn't the airlines.

I suspect this is the official IATA tariff, which explains why there would be a F as well as J and Y fare on the route. How there were ever derived, who knows. More to the point, has anyone ever been charged these fares, even on a last minute ticket purchase?

Except hotels never sell rooms at the listed price, even for a last minute or walk-in bookings. Those listed prices are just to avoid complaints from consumers about their current room rate.

Same thing with automobiles... MSRP is there for the sales agent to convince that the consumers save a bundle with his offer. They never sell you (except Saturn) at MSRP even at a last minute purchase (if one exists?).

However, Airlines full fare is there to take advantage of consumers... who have last minute travel plans. They are there for the intention to be sold for profit, and not for advertising like the other examples listed.

But as I said, show me someone who has actually paid $8.5K to travel between YYZ-YVR return even at the last minute. Hotels do use that door price, or rack rate, as the base for discounting if you use a 50% off certificate at Starwood or Hilton, and at peak times they do charge it. On walk-ins, they will discount if they have the room available. I would be very surprised if you walked up to the ticket counter at YYZ and asked to fly on the next flight to YVR, you'd have to pay $4.25K one-way. Maybe half that at most.

Out of curiosity, I went to the AC site and tried booking a return YYZ-YVR flight leaving tomorrow and returning on Tuesday [i.e. no Saturday overnight], and all the options came up with a combination V and T fare of $2643.97. Then put in a one-way for later today (AC149 at 7:30 pm) and it came back as $1,652.62. So no matter what the tariff says, this latter in Y-class appears to be the real full-fare.

Just for interest, I have noticed in the window of some travel agencies, the one-way J fare between YYZ and HKG is stated to be 5.5K and F class is twice that. Yet, I also know that those fares are essentially the returnones. Who really knows why these tarrifs are set the way they are. Just think of how much more valuable those free FF tickets are when you use this as your fare!

[This message has been edited by Shareholder (edited 01-20-2001).]

YYZ-YVR return for CAD$8498.00.

Even I wouldn't be dumb enough to pay that much

To put this Y fare into some context, here are some quotes from a RTW(29000 miles) on *A: in F class $9398 and in J class $6898. These RTW need to be adjusted upwards for 2001. I recognize that nobody pays that Y classs fare but $8498 can get you around the world in great confort.

Select Fare Type
One Way Price
(CAD) Round Trip Price
(CAD) Airline
Y1 1537.00 3074.00 AC
J1 1696.00 3392.00 AC
Y 4249.00 8498.00 AC

(YVR-YYZ)

The following is an example of a fare display YVR-HKG)

The CAD 4980 J fare is for business class (YVR-HKG)Via the Pacific Ocean (only travel agents with proper display can see this fact)

The CAD 13,682 J fare is for business class via the Atlantic Ocean (YVR-LHR-HKG-LHR-YVR)
[notice that if you get an around the world fare, it is a lot less] (notice that for these kind of full fares, travel can be on multiple carriers)

Since Air Canada does not offer real first class (ie. first class on a 3 class aircraft), you will always get the J fares when flying Executive First.

The F fares are published for travel on third carriers. For example, if I fly the following routing:

YVR-SFO AC J
SFO-HKG SQ/UA First class
HKG-SFO SQ/UA First class
SFO-YVR AC J

and I buy the ticket from AC, it would cost CAD 7930 (fare basis: F) (Since the MPM via SFO has been exceeded, a futher 5% surcharge applies)

Fares for VANCOUVER, BC, CANAD (YVR) to HONG KONG, HONG KONG (HKG)
Fares applicable: 21 January, 2001 through 21 January, 2001

Select Fare Type One Way Price
(CAD) Round Trip Price
(CAD) Airline
HLXE1
2021.00 AC
HLXAPACO 1100.00 N/A AC
HLXEOW 1206.00 2412.00 AC
Y2 1808.00 3616.00 AC
J 2490.00 4980.00 AC
F 3965.00 7930.00 AC
Y 5770.00 11540.00 AC
J 6841.00 13682.00 AC
F 10232.00 20464.00 AC

The Y, J and F fares above CAD 10,000 (round trip basis) are also known as "YY" fares and can apply to multiple carriers and for travel on non-traditional routings.

The following are sample fare calculations for both the CAD 4980 and CAD 13682 J fares(in CAD and not NUC without "Q" surcharges and taxes for simplicity reasons)

(Via Atlantic)
YVR AC (AT) LON CX HKG R6481.00J LH /X FRA AC(AT) YVR R6481.00J TOTAL CAD 13682.00

(Via Pacific [traditional routing])
YVR AC {PA) HKG R2490.00J AC (PA)YVR R2490.00J TOTAL CAD 4980.00

(AT) = VIA ATLANTIC OCEAN
(PA) = VIA PACIFIC OCEAN

[This message has been edited by daniellam (edited 01-21-2001).]

[This message has been edited by daniellam (edited 01-21-2001).]