Pilots ready to Strike, again!
#1
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Pilots ready to Strike, again!
Front page of the National Post headlines (and the late afternoon CBC Newsworld business report yesterday initially reported) that Air Canada's pilots are prepared, for the second time in two years, to throw the country's air system into chaos by striking. They did it two summers ago in August and the only benefit was the triple Aeroplan miles (even Q-miles) AC had to offer to make amends with those inconvenienced (sic).
Parliament would pass legislation to get them -- I want to say "the greedy .......s" but am trying to restrain myself -- back to work. Wasn't it just a year ago the pilots were gung-ho in support of Milton and company as Onex made its bit for the carrier?
According to the Post, pilots say they are paid 35% less than those on other comparable carriers and they reject AC's offer of 4%, 3% and 2.5% for the last three years of a 5-year deal.
If you think Milton has an image problem, you ain't seen nothing yet. AC's pilots didn't look good when they walked in 1998, and they'll be held in even lower repute if they do the same thing this summer. Or is this all normal labour/management posturing, and just another National Post front page stunt?
Question: Are pilots really worth what they are paid, given the massive changes in automation which have come to the cockpit? How much longer can they pull off their prima donna acts? Or now that AC wants to be a "world class" player, should Milton and company be prepared to pay the price in the form of comparable salaries to the big U.S. and international carriers?
Hope we have some pilots lurking who will jump in and give us their side of the story.
Parliament would pass legislation to get them -- I want to say "the greedy .......s" but am trying to restrain myself -- back to work. Wasn't it just a year ago the pilots were gung-ho in support of Milton and company as Onex made its bit for the carrier?
According to the Post, pilots say they are paid 35% less than those on other comparable carriers and they reject AC's offer of 4%, 3% and 2.5% for the last three years of a 5-year deal.
If you think Milton has an image problem, you ain't seen nothing yet. AC's pilots didn't look good when they walked in 1998, and they'll be held in even lower repute if they do the same thing this summer. Or is this all normal labour/management posturing, and just another National Post front page stunt?
Question: Are pilots really worth what they are paid, given the massive changes in automation which have come to the cockpit? How much longer can they pull off their prima donna acts? Or now that AC wants to be a "world class" player, should Milton and company be prepared to pay the price in the form of comparable salaries to the big U.S. and international carriers?
Hope we have some pilots lurking who will jump in and give us their side of the story.
#2
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IMHO, the goverment cannot allow the air transportation system to come to a halt. Air Canada is the only major game in town and it is summer! There is a great deal of postering going on. The public reaction to a strike will be very negative and the cries for foreign carriers in Canada will grow louder. The pilots know this, the AC management knows the consequences and the government is in a bind. This is an interesting situation and makes for good labour relation case studies in the future.
#3


Join Date: May 1999
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In the current political environment, I don't think they'll let them walk.
Remember that last year they passed back-to-work legislation aimed at the controllers, more than a week before the legal strike date (the strike would have started during a recess and I guess they couldn't break their vacations).
That's a little different in that these workers weren't allowed to strike before privatization (also that it would have affected all flights using Canadian airspace, including overflights and cargo operations), but postal workers were also legislated back, legislation including a salary increase that was less than management's offer.
I imagine David Collenette will welcome the opportunity to look forceful by keeping the "Canadian air transportation system" (i.e. Air Canada) flying.
andrew
Remember that last year they passed back-to-work legislation aimed at the controllers, more than a week before the legal strike date (the strike would have started during a recess and I guess they couldn't break their vacations).
That's a little different in that these workers weren't allowed to strike before privatization (also that it would have affected all flights using Canadian airspace, including overflights and cargo operations), but postal workers were also legislated back, legislation including a salary increase that was less than management's offer.
I imagine David Collenette will welcome the opportunity to look forceful by keeping the "Canadian air transportation system" (i.e. Air Canada) flying.
andrew
#4


Join Date: Feb 2000
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Hence the posturing now. ALPA well recognize the box that they are in. By putting some anxiety into the travelling public now, they probably expect a certain portion of the public to put their dollars on other carriers, hitting AC in the pocketbook.
It's not a bad strategy, provided that managmement doesn't call your bluff.
It's not a bad strategy, provided that managmement doesn't call your bluff.
#5


Join Date: May 1999
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Sure, and it doesn't hurt relations with the rank and file to let them blame the government for the settlement, rather than the risk of them thinking the leaders didn't get enough.
Even binding arbitration imposed by the government isn't too bad. Only in a case like the postal workers (which was surely just spite on the government's part, since the post office is about as unessential a formerly essential service as there is), where the workers _know_ they got less than management offered, can it really hurt.
andrew
Even binding arbitration imposed by the government isn't too bad. Only in a case like the postal workers (which was surely just spite on the government's part, since the post office is about as unessential a formerly essential service as there is), where the workers _know_ they got less than management offered, can it really hurt.
andrew
#6
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 528
Just a point of clarification AC*SE:
ACPA (Air Canada Pilot's Association) is the union representation for the AC mainline pilots only. ALPA is the union for CAIL pilots and for the regional carriers at both AC and CP.
It is ACPA that the talks have broken down with and they are the association mentioned in the news.
ACPA (Air Canada Pilot's Association) is the union representation for the AC mainline pilots only. ALPA is the union for CAIL pilots and for the regional carriers at both AC and CP.
It is ACPA that the talks have broken down with and they are the association mentioned in the news.
#7


Join Date: Feb 2000
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Yeah, sorry about that. I have that dazed, "I need more coffee" look on my face.
There is an interesting issue, though. Since the AC CP and CP have not yet been designated as a common employer, would CP pilots be forced to scab during a strike (operating CP metal, only, of course)
Nasty potential there.
There is an interesting issue, though. Since the AC CP and CP have not yet been designated as a common employer, would CP pilots be forced to scab during a strike (operating CP metal, only, of course)
Nasty potential there.
#8
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
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Man, I'm with you there. I need at least two coffees before I can articulate in proper english.
Yes AC*SE, if it ever came to a majority vote to strike without the common employer decree, without a single union/association representing all the pilots and without the seniority issue settled and approved, the CAIL guys/gals will legally be obligated to keep flying on their own metal. So will all the regionals.
Again the media stretched the truth a bit for the sake of shock value. No way will a strike hit "as early as June 15". That is the legal time frame but it will not be met in this case. You have to call for a strike vote to initiate strike action and there is no sign of that happening in the near future but then I'm not privy to any inside info. Just pilot talk.
The majority of the pilots realize the timing is horrid. They are very aware that their image and the image of AC doesn't need further condemnation from the public, the government would most likely legislate them back to work as an essential service (and would never forgive having their summer recess interrupted) and the employees from all camps definitely do not want to see a "divide and conquer" situation develop that would reopen the wounds that are just starting to heal from the past rivalry.
I too feel and hope that it is just posturing. The alternative would be too damaging.
Yes AC*SE, if it ever came to a majority vote to strike without the common employer decree, without a single union/association representing all the pilots and without the seniority issue settled and approved, the CAIL guys/gals will legally be obligated to keep flying on their own metal. So will all the regionals.
Again the media stretched the truth a bit for the sake of shock value. No way will a strike hit "as early as June 15". That is the legal time frame but it will not be met in this case. You have to call for a strike vote to initiate strike action and there is no sign of that happening in the near future but then I'm not privy to any inside info. Just pilot talk.
The majority of the pilots realize the timing is horrid. They are very aware that their image and the image of AC doesn't need further condemnation from the public, the government would most likely legislate them back to work as an essential service (and would never forgive having their summer recess interrupted) and the employees from all camps definitely do not want to see a "divide and conquer" situation develop that would reopen the wounds that are just starting to heal from the past rivalry.
I too feel and hope that it is just posturing. The alternative would be too damaging.
#9
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The possibility of (yet another) Air Canada pilots' strike is horrible. There would be huge damage to their image, Air Canada's image, and their relations with their fellow CP and regional pilots (who'd continue working). The timing is just all wrong and I fear that AC management might want to play a game of brinksmanship and divide and conquer.
Yesterday while waiting for my flight out of YYZ T2, I read an article about this situation in the National Post and was tempted to hold it up at the window facing the cockpit of an AC A320 where the pilots would see it and gesture to them "what's up with this!?"
FewMiles..
Yesterday while waiting for my flight out of YYZ T2, I read an article about this situation in the National Post and was tempted to hold it up at the window facing the cockpit of an AC A320 where the pilots would see it and gesture to them "what's up with this!?"

FewMiles..
#10
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Join Date: May 1999
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Well, since AC and its 2,200 pilots broke off contract talks on Wednesday, AC said its final offer was rejected by the Air Canada Pilots Association union during the weekend and NO new talks are scheduled. The pilots have been without a contract since 4/1.
AC spokeswoman Laura Cooke cited by Bloomberg said the company will wait to hear from a mediator who had been trying to broker a new contract before deciding what to do next. She said the company has no plans to lock out pilots. The company won't make any more contract offers, she said, and no new talks are scheduled.
Union spokesman Raymond Hill said AC seeks concessions in several areas, including pensions, wages & rules governing which pilots fly which planes. The latter has become more important because of ACs pending purchase of rival Canadian Airlines. AC pilots are naturally very concerned they'll lose seniority to pilots joining from Canadian Airlines.
Maybe something good will happen over the weekend!
AC spokeswoman Laura Cooke cited by Bloomberg said the company will wait to hear from a mediator who had been trying to broker a new contract before deciding what to do next. She said the company has no plans to lock out pilots. The company won't make any more contract offers, she said, and no new talks are scheduled.
Union spokesman Raymond Hill said AC seeks concessions in several areas, including pensions, wages & rules governing which pilots fly which planes. The latter has become more important because of ACs pending purchase of rival Canadian Airlines. AC pilots are naturally very concerned they'll lose seniority to pilots joining from Canadian Airlines.
Maybe something good will happen over the weekend!
#11
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I think the AC pilots (and quite possibly other AC unions) may have snookered themselves if they remain uncompromising about the seniority list integration. If they don't come up with something satisfactory for the CP employees, they (AC unions) will know that the CP unions are unlikely to back them in a strike and just go on working, even putting in overtime up to the maximum allowed.
The Vancouver Province has a small tidbit that the CP and Air BC pilots will stay on the job if the AC pilots strike.
The Vancouver Province has a small tidbit that the CP and Air BC pilots will stay on the job if the AC pilots strike.
#12


Join Date: Feb 2000
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The CP and AirBC pilots have to keep flying. They are not in a legal strike position.
However, CP and AirBC pilots cannot be put to work on AC metal. So only the CP and feeder carrier networks can operate, which still makes a strike a hard prospect for the airline.
The interesting issue is how quickly the government will step in. There seems to be a great deal of opinion that the pilots would be legislated back before they every go out. I am not so sure. In view of the fact that half the network will still be in operation, I wonder whether the Government will let AC twist in the wind for a little while? There is likely little love lost between Cabinet and Milton at the moment.
However, CP and AirBC pilots cannot be put to work on AC metal. So only the CP and feeder carrier networks can operate, which still makes a strike a hard prospect for the airline.
The interesting issue is how quickly the government will step in. There seems to be a great deal of opinion that the pilots would be legislated back before they every go out. I am not so sure. In view of the fact that half the network will still be in operation, I wonder whether the Government will let AC twist in the wind for a little while? There is likely little love lost between Cabinet and Milton at the moment.
#13
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True, but the AC pilots won't be able to totally shut down the airline.
Even if the Cp and Air BC pilots could strike, I somehow don't think they will if they are put at the bottom of the seniority list.
Even if the Cp and Air BC pilots could strike, I somehow don't think they will if they are put at the bottom of the seniority list.
#14


Join Date: Feb 2000
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The seniority list isn't a management issue. The union(s) determine how to merge the lists. The members cannot take job action against management for a matter which is internal to the bargaining unit.
That's not to say that CP pilots won't be p.o.'d over list merging. But the choice between sticking it to management or sticking it to the opposing union, would give a lot of members pause.
Don't forget that in the last pilot's strike, the CP pilots refused to work additional sections to replace AC flights. They were willing to do second sections on CP's own flights, but not totally new operations to replace AC services.
And the regionals are not involved in the seniority issue. If they were in a legal position to take job action, why would they stick up for management against the AC pilots? (Moot question, I know).
That's not to say that CP pilots won't be p.o.'d over list merging. But the choice between sticking it to management or sticking it to the opposing union, would give a lot of members pause.
Don't forget that in the last pilot's strike, the CP pilots refused to work additional sections to replace AC flights. They were willing to do second sections on CP's own flights, but not totally new operations to replace AC services.
And the regionals are not involved in the seniority issue. If they were in a legal position to take job action, why would they stick up for management against the AC pilots? (Moot question, I know).
#15
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I'm not saying that AC has anything to do with the seniority list but I think the triumphalist attitude of the AC unions/locals re: merging the seniority list is going to make the CP locals/unions less likely to honour picket lines for a strike initiated by the "original" AC employees. I know I'd be tempted to stick it to the AC people if I were a CP employee.
CP's pilots may have not wanted to "scab" the AC routes during the last AC strike but things might well be different if the CP pilots are put at the bottom of the seniority list.
CP's pilots may have not wanted to "scab" the AC routes during the last AC strike but things might well be different if the CP pilots are put at the bottom of the seniority list.

