Wyndham's Stealth Devaluation of Airline Miles Conversion
Feb 2, 2014, 10:23 am
#16
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 138
So for airline miles which hotel card now?
We like to travel and stay in the small hotels in centro or B&Bs so hotel cards are not an issue. But now being in a 12-18 pause between a new AA or United card I was trying to compare hotel to airline transfer rates. Is there an updated list? From my limited research Starwoods looks the best but has a big spend. Marriott, the Holiday Inn card, and Wyndham seemed to be close 2nd but now Wyndham appears off the list. Suggestions?
Feb 2, 2014, 11:07 am
#17
Join Date: Sep 2008
Programs: A3 *G, AA exePlat, AS MVP 75k Gold, JL sapphire, UA silver
Posts: 4,035
http://www.flyertalk.com/the-gate/bl...ategories.html
This post contains a list of hotels.
It may help u to burn the points. I have 400K points, it sure will help me to become one of the biggest losers!
This post contains a list of hotels.
It may help u to burn the points. I have 400K points, it sure will help me to become one of the biggest losers!
Feb 2, 2014, 7:58 pm
#18
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Bangkok, Thailand. No longer Palm Coast, FL though still exiled, again, from the Bay Area.
Programs: Only the good ones
Posts: 5,153
In response,
I have done a stealth reverse devaluation of my own, cancelled all of my Wyndham res except the freebie for doing their ridiculous timeshare deal. And, will have Barclay change my Wyndham card to a different reward program, probably USAir. Bye Bye.
Feb 3, 2014, 11:13 pm
#20
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,624
Be aware that Choice was only 1.5 weeks better than Wyndham with its last devaluation of transfers in 2009L
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/south...ued-again.html
I fully expect Choice to devalue the Southwest Rapid Rewards transfer option within a year, probably without notice. I don't trust them. Also, their Southwest option is out of line with the value of their other transfer options.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/south...ued-again.html
I fully expect Choice to devalue the Southwest Rapid Rewards transfer option within a year, probably without notice. I don't trust them. Also, their Southwest option is out of line with the value of their other transfer options.
Feb 4, 2014, 1:19 pm
#22
Join Date: Sep 2008
Programs: A3 *G, AA exePlat, AS MVP 75k Gold, JL sapphire, UA silver
Posts: 4,035
Be aware that Choice was only 1.5 weeks better than Wyndham with its last devaluation of transfers in 2009L
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/south...ued-again.html
I fully expect Choice to devalue the Southwest Rapid Rewards transfer option within a year, probably without notice. I don't trust them. Also, their Southwest option is out of line with the value of their other transfer options.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/south...ued-again.html
I fully expect Choice to devalue the Southwest Rapid Rewards transfer option within a year, probably without notice. I don't trust them. Also, their Southwest option is out of line with the value of their other transfer options.
Feb 4, 2014, 1:29 pm
#23
Join Date: Sep 2008
Programs: A3 *G, AA exePlat, AS MVP 75k Gold, JL sapphire, UA silver
Posts: 4,035
http://www.flyertalk.com/the-gate/bl...ategories.html
This post contains a list of hotels.
It may help u to burn the points. I have 400K points, it sure will help me to become one of the biggest losers!
This post contains a list of hotels.
It may help u to burn the points. I have 400K points, it sure will help me to become one of the biggest losers!
Feb 4, 2014, 1:50 pm
#24
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 25,933
We like to travel and stay in the small hotels in centro or B&Bs so hotel cards are not an issue. But now being in a 12-18 pause between a new AA or United card I was trying to compare hotel to airline transfer rates. Is there an updated list? From my limited research Starwoods looks the best but has a big spend. Marriott, the Holiday Inn card, and Wyndham seemed to be close 2nd but now Wyndham appears off the list. Suggestions?
Meanwhile, Starwood is repeatable (12 months from closing of previous one), and Manufactured Spending can help with big spend requirements.
And there are airline cards (AS?) that are more repeatable. And remember that US will turn into AA in a while (and be usable on AA even sooner); have you already gotten that one at least once?
(However, this is not the thread, or even the forum, for comparing signup bonuses. Start at the Credit Cards forum for that, and ask at the Information Desk if you can't figure out the hotel:airline transfer ratios on your own.)
Feb 7, 2014, 9:19 am
#25
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 262
Despite my earlier complaints, I have to note that Wyndham is within right to do what it's been doing. Changes may be made at any time, yada, yada, yada.
Best practices, and used by most programs, has been to provide some warning. And even slovenly practice has been to notify members that "hey, we're changing the program" and then make an immediate change. Wyndham manages to go all the way and implements changes without notice or even any acknowledgement that a change has been made. Yeah, that probably meets their T&Cs so as not to open themselves to any liability, but for a program that's really bottom feeding, it gives members no real reason to be loyal.
Best practices, and used by most programs, has been to provide some warning. And even slovenly practice has been to notify members that "hey, we're changing the program" and then make an immediate change. Wyndham manages to go all the way and implements changes without notice or even any acknowledgement that a change has been made. Yeah, that probably meets their T&Cs so as not to open themselves to any liability, but for a program that's really bottom feeding, it gives members no real reason to be loyal.
It maybe legal but it sure ain;t ethical or moral. I have closed my account and canceled my Wyndham credit card. These are not people care to deal with.
Feb 12, 2014, 10:36 am
#26
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Charleston, SC, USA
Programs: Avis Pref+, Hyatt Explorist, Marriott Life Gold, Honors Silver, IHG Plat via MC.
Posts: 6,786
I remember a few things from my Basic Business Law class in high-school & my one semester of law school:
1. Once entered into, a contract may be changed or cancelled only if both parties agree.
2. Doctrine of "Unconscionability:" A court may toss a contract that is overly one-sided.
3. Certain language found in "Adhesion" or 'take it or leave it' contracts is null & void if it violates (1) or (2) above &or is one-sided in favor of the company offering the contract.
1. Once entered into, a contract may be changed or cancelled only if both parties agree.
2. Doctrine of "Unconscionability:" A court may toss a contract that is overly one-sided.
3. Certain language found in "Adhesion" or 'take it or leave it' contracts is null & void if it violates (1) or (2) above &or is one-sided in favor of the company offering the contract.
Feb 12, 2014, 10:44 am
#27
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Charleston, SC, USA
Programs: Avis Pref+, Hyatt Explorist, Marriott Life Gold, Honors Silver, IHG Plat via MC.
Posts: 6,786
I guess I lucked out. I had next to 0 WR points last summer when I bought some from Daily Getaways with the intention of using them for 2 nights @ 16--20K in high season for a room renting >$200 buxanite.
I didn't go to that hotel, so I transferred them in Dec. 2013 to UA to top off for an award & to AC to earn the bonus on transfers of hotel points. So now I laugh at WR with my goose-egg balance
!
I didn't go to that hotel, so I transferred them in Dec. 2013 to UA to top off for an award & to AC to earn the bonus on transfers of hotel points. So now I laugh at WR with my goose-egg balance
!
Feb 12, 2014, 1:34 pm
#28
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: ORF
Programs: Amex Plat, AA, BA Silver, Marriott Plat, Choice Gold, HHonors Gold, IHG Diamond
Posts: 3,749
I remember a few things from my Basic Business Law class in high-school & my one semester of law school:
1. Once entered into, a contract may be changed or cancelled only if both parties agree.
2. Doctrine of "Unconscionability:" A court may toss a contract that is overly one-sided.
3. Certain language found in "Adhesion" or 'take it or leave it' contracts is null & void if it violates (1) or (2) above &or is one-sided in favor of the company offering the contract.
1. Once entered into, a contract may be changed or cancelled only if both parties agree.
2. Doctrine of "Unconscionability:" A court may toss a contract that is overly one-sided.
3. Certain language found in "Adhesion" or 'take it or leave it' contracts is null & void if it violates (1) or (2) above &or is one-sided in favor of the company offering the contract.
2. Sponsor may modify, alter, delete or add new terms and conditions for its Program at any time without notice. For Wyndham Rewards, Inc. this includes modifying, altering, adding or deleting point values, redemption levels, conversion ratios, conditions for status, conditions for membership in the Gold Status program, Earning Participants or Rewards Participants (as defined below) to the Wyndham Rewards Program at any time without notice. In addition, Wyndham Rewards may convert the Wyndham Rewards Program and Members' points into different awards programs having different point values at any time without notice. This means, in the case of Wyndham Rewards, that the number of points needed to reach a reward level may be increased, the time for earning them reduced, or the rewards changed, so you may not be able to obtain, earn or claim certain rewards no matter how long you participate in Wyndham Rewards. To view or obtain the most up to date Terms and Conditions for the Programs visit wyndhamrewards.com or Wyndham Rewards Member Services at 1.866.996.7937 for residents of the United States and Canada, 00-800-367-8747 for residents of Mexico, 86-400-820-8831 for residents of Asia and 00-800-367-87477 for residents of Europe and the Middle East.
Fortunately, no one has tried to invoke the provisions of paragraph three of Wyndham's T&Cs:
3. Sponsor may terminate a Program at any time upon six months' notice, without further obligation to the Member. Regardless of the amount of time you participate in the Program, your right to accumulate additional Wyndham Rewards points or other Program currency and claim rewards under the Program may be terminated and all accrued Wyndham Rewards points in your account cancelled six months after termination of the Program is announced.
Feb 21, 2014, 3:24 am
#29
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Germany / Spain / Switzerland
Programs: LH M&M SEN, bmi DC Gold, CO Gold Elite, bahn.comfort nothing
Posts: 310
The text goes:
This text was sent out with the Newsletter on 27th of January, just 4 days before the end of the month and taking the changes into effect.
There is not mentioning of any devaluation whatsoever and the upcoming changes could not be found anywhere upfront.
It just sounded like an improvement.
What strikes me as rather odd is that Payback and Melia are not even airlines, so it should not have been affected by this anyway.
Is Melia a new conversion partner or already available and was also affected by this?
It would be very much appreciated to have at least a small amount of time as a courtesy to make use of the old conversion rates.
Beginning January 31, you can redeem your Rewards points for miles with as little as 6,000 points. Choose from our 20 airline partners including the newly added Alaska Airlines.
There is not mentioning of any devaluation whatsoever and the upcoming changes could not be found anywhere upfront.
It just sounded like an improvement.
What strikes me as rather odd is that Payback and Melia are not even airlines, so it should not have been affected by this anyway.
Is Melia a new conversion partner or already available and was also affected by this?
It would be very much appreciated to have at least a small amount of time as a courtesy to make use of the old conversion rates.