Any women travelers feel invisible?
Oct 18, 2013, 11:53 am
#31
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: In a hotel somewhere trying to repack everything I brought (and bought) in to a carry-on smaller than my last one.
Programs: UA, Asia Miles, Southwest, IHG
Posts: 1,101
Sometimes, depending on the culture and who is around me. Was quite literally pushed aside by a couple of lounge ladies in their eagerness to serve my male 6-ft 20-something cousin. They didn't take my drink order or coat but kept on swinging by us on his side asking if he wanted anything else. He was quite amused and said "Yes, I'd like you to hang my sister's coat up next to mine and bring her a Perrier" They were polite and didn't buzz around him so much after that! 
Oct 19, 2013, 3:21 pm
#32
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 254
I have never felt this way, in fact I often feel like I am treated better as a female. I've definitely noticed this in flight- for example my coat is always taken first, my drink and food order is taken first, and I can frequently get away with a third carry-on bag as a purse.
Nov 15, 2013, 4:15 pm
#34
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 222
Fascinating discussion!
I've never felt invisible, but early in my career, I was definitely treated differently because of my gender. In a good way while traveling, almost like a celebrity on occasion, while at the same time encountering blatant discrimination in some of my home offices. Honestly, I could write a book about the old days when sexual harassment wasn't yet illegal, professional women were rare, and female business travelers way more so. Maybe I will.
Anyway, those experiences resulted in me being of two minds on sexism. One: if you're picking up on it, you're probably right, and it's a downright pity that hasn't changed as much as it should have in forty years. Two: I have noticed an improvement, all is not necessarily as it seems, so for my own peace of mind, I'm better off considering other plausible explanations first - and that probably also applies to all women.
Definitely the case with air travel. I don't consider it in my best interest to get annoyed or upset based on drawing conclusions that may fly in the face of relative mileage, random luck/timing, and other factors.
What I do instead is ask for what I need or want, proactively send clear non-verbal messages, and otherwise make sure no one mistakes polite and easy for willing to be used as a doormat. For example, if I chose my seat because there was an empty middle one next to it, and re-confirmed at check-in and again at the gate that it was still unassigned, no one has as any more official right to it when I board than me and the passenger on the opposite side. So once I am aboard, my eyeglasses, book, etc. go in its seat pocket, my purse stays on it until the door closes, and my sweater or shawl stays until everyone is seated. All perfectly legal, but since I obviously made that seat more difficult to occupy than others, no one has yet assumed that I wouldn't mind someone moving there.
I've never felt invisible, but early in my career, I was definitely treated differently because of my gender. In a good way while traveling, almost like a celebrity on occasion, while at the same time encountering blatant discrimination in some of my home offices. Honestly, I could write a book about the old days when sexual harassment wasn't yet illegal, professional women were rare, and female business travelers way more so. Maybe I will.
Anyway, those experiences resulted in me being of two minds on sexism. One: if you're picking up on it, you're probably right, and it's a downright pity that hasn't changed as much as it should have in forty years. Two: I have noticed an improvement, all is not necessarily as it seems, so for my own peace of mind, I'm better off considering other plausible explanations first - and that probably also applies to all women.
Definitely the case with air travel. I don't consider it in my best interest to get annoyed or upset based on drawing conclusions that may fly in the face of relative mileage, random luck/timing, and other factors.
What I do instead is ask for what I need or want, proactively send clear non-verbal messages, and otherwise make sure no one mistakes polite and easy for willing to be used as a doormat. For example, if I chose my seat because there was an empty middle one next to it, and re-confirmed at check-in and again at the gate that it was still unassigned, no one has as any more official right to it when I board than me and the passenger on the opposite side. So once I am aboard, my eyeglasses, book, etc. go in its seat pocket, my purse stays on it until the door closes, and my sweater or shawl stays until everyone is seated. All perfectly legal, but since I obviously made that seat more difficult to occupy than others, no one has yet assumed that I wouldn't mind someone moving there.
Nov 16, 2013, 3:54 pm
#35
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 222
Though come to think of it, I haven't heard an airline employee mention the button in decades. Are you younger people aware that/why it's there?
Nov 23, 2013, 10:39 pm
#36
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Seattle
Programs: AS MM, MVPGold100k, Hilton Diamond, Hertz Presidents Circle
Posts: 1,475
Great discussion, and sad to see it is still a relevant one 
However, I am glad to see that it is becoming much more acceptable, and dare I say even a norm to speak up and refuse to accept poor service!
I stayed at a hotel property in the Bay area several times, and mostly they are great. Once, though I noticed in the morning the hostess was seating all the solo men on 4-top tables and all the solo women on 2-top tables up against pillars. (no room to read the newspaper or kindle, awkward tables) So, I dropped by the reception desk afterwards and let them know I thought that was rather odd and not a good business practice. Of course they apologized etc, but I was not sure they would actually do anything. Except, on my next stay, I was given a 4-top, and noticed they were not seating anyone at the 2-tops.
More recently, I stayed in a different hotel chain in Cheyenne WY, and the first time I was given a suite, very much appreciated
Second time I got what I had reserved, a King room. Third time I was given their "worst" room (according to the staff when I went back to the desk to ask why), it had only 8" of space between the bed on either side due to the odd shape of the room. This particular hotel always leaves a letter with chocolates from the manager on your bed the next day after check in asking if things are ok etc, so I wrote back on that letter to say I was not pleased with going from a suite to a king to a less than king room. (it would have been fine albeit a small room if they put a double bed in there instead of the king bed) I let them know that I was afraid of what room (closet?) they would give me on my next scheduled visit, and that I knew that others that arrived later than I had, and that had booked the rooms that night were given the standard king sized rooms so why was I given this room. I mentioned that I had made my reservations well in advance and was not expecting to be upgraded, I just wanted the standard room, and felt that by giving me that room when two co-workers that had called an hour before I checked in (we were all at dinner together) were given better rooms was not acceptable. I knew there were no more rooms then and nothing they could really do about my room, I was just letting them know I was not happy. They more than made up for it though, and on my next stay they upgraded me even though I told them I would be more than happy with the standard room. It does pay to speak up even when you know nothing can be changed at that moment. The hotel said they were using my experience as a great training opportunity for all their staff, and based on how each of them greeted me, they all really cared. Hopefully, even more change will come.
However, I am glad to see that it is becoming much more acceptable, and dare I say even a norm to speak up and refuse to accept poor service!I stayed at a hotel property in the Bay area several times, and mostly they are great. Once, though I noticed in the morning the hostess was seating all the solo men on 4-top tables and all the solo women on 2-top tables up against pillars. (no room to read the newspaper or kindle, awkward tables) So, I dropped by the reception desk afterwards and let them know I thought that was rather odd and not a good business practice. Of course they apologized etc, but I was not sure they would actually do anything. Except, on my next stay, I was given a 4-top, and noticed they were not seating anyone at the 2-tops.
More recently, I stayed in a different hotel chain in Cheyenne WY, and the first time I was given a suite, very much appreciated
Second time I got what I had reserved, a King room. Third time I was given their "worst" room (according to the staff when I went back to the desk to ask why), it had only 8" of space between the bed on either side due to the odd shape of the room. This particular hotel always leaves a letter with chocolates from the manager on your bed the next day after check in asking if things are ok etc, so I wrote back on that letter to say I was not pleased with going from a suite to a king to a less than king room. (it would have been fine albeit a small room if they put a double bed in there instead of the king bed) I let them know that I was afraid of what room (closet?) they would give me on my next scheduled visit, and that I knew that others that arrived later than I had, and that had booked the rooms that night were given the standard king sized rooms so why was I given this room. I mentioned that I had made my reservations well in advance and was not expecting to be upgraded, I just wanted the standard room, and felt that by giving me that room when two co-workers that had called an hour before I checked in (we were all at dinner together) were given better rooms was not acceptable. I knew there were no more rooms then and nothing they could really do about my room, I was just letting them know I was not happy. They more than made up for it though, and on my next stay they upgraded me even though I told them I would be more than happy with the standard room. It does pay to speak up even when you know nothing can be changed at that moment. The hotel said they were using my experience as a great training opportunity for all their staff, and based on how each of them greeted me, they all really cared. Hopefully, even more change will come.
Last edited by ctporter; Nov 23, 2013 at 10:45 pm
Nov 25, 2013, 12:26 am
#37
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 19
A thought about HelloKittysMum's experience:
In restaurants, I notice that men tend to get better service. After observing why, I came to the conclusion that men are generally better tippers than women are. When my father pays, he tips at least 20%. When my mother pays, the figure is closer to 10%. And it's not just my parents whom I have observed- I have observed their friends too. Females are more likely to order free water as a beverage. The waiter is probably thinking that a single woman dining alone would yield a low bill total, poorly tipped table so he couldn't justify giving her the nice table.
During the handful of times I dined with my younger siblings at seat-in restaurants, I usually gave a 15% of pre-tax bill tip. Do you think it's decent enough? I don't want us females to be stereotyped for being bad tippers hence getting worse service.
In restaurants, I notice that men tend to get better service. After observing why, I came to the conclusion that men are generally better tippers than women are. When my father pays, he tips at least 20%. When my mother pays, the figure is closer to 10%. And it's not just my parents whom I have observed- I have observed their friends too. Females are more likely to order free water as a beverage. The waiter is probably thinking that a single woman dining alone would yield a low bill total, poorly tipped table so he couldn't justify giving her the nice table.
During the handful of times I dined with my younger siblings at seat-in restaurants, I usually gave a 15% of pre-tax bill tip. Do you think it's decent enough? I don't want us females to be stereotyped for being bad tippers hence getting worse service.
Nov 25, 2013, 8:10 am
#38
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Seattle
Programs: AS MM, MVPGold100k, Hilton Diamond, Hertz Presidents Circle
Posts: 1,475
15% pretax is a minimum for good service. There is a good guide for tipping along with explanations found here:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g1...Etiquette.html
or here:
http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/tipping/
Keep in mind even the IRS expects wait staff will be earning tips, see
http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc761.html
Personally, I tip a minimum of 20% when the service is good.
Do you leave a tip for the housekeeper when you stay at hotels? That is one tip I find that most fellow travelers do not.
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g1...Etiquette.html
or here:
http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/tipping/
Keep in mind even the IRS expects wait staff will be earning tips, see
http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc761.html
Personally, I tip a minimum of 20% when the service is good.
Do you leave a tip for the housekeeper when you stay at hotels? That is one tip I find that most fellow travelers do not.
Nov 25, 2013, 9:04 am
#40
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Seattle
Programs: AS MM, MVPGold100k, Hilton Diamond, Hertz Presidents Circle
Posts: 1,475
Is that per day? If so, it is quite generous. Standard is $2 per day, left EACH day (staff rotates in many places) I have found that I have to wrap the tip in a note saying "housekeeping" or they will leave the tip alone.
Nov 25, 2013, 6:09 pm
#41
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,042
I like tipping housekeeping more than anybody else in the hotel. Hardworking women supporting families, not really expecting a tip. More deserving than some it is customary to tip for some easy service you don't even need, such as hailing a cab from a line of taxis waiting in front of the hotel. Housekeeping ladies don't blow their wages drinking like hotshot valet boys and they never have a snooty attitude like a few of the waiters. It is a good feeling to voluntarily leave a tip to someone you believe deserves it, instead of having to tip because it is customary.
Nov 25, 2013, 9:51 pm
#42
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 19
I agree with ya Tizzette. Housekeeping duties are more arduous than duties of bellboys. I know it's not very lady-like, but I usually elect to carry my own luggage to the room.
Aug 4, 2014, 11:00 am
#43
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: AA Gold, OW Ruby, IHG PLT, JB Mosiac, Delta Silver, VA Silver, AK MVP, Hyatt Gold, Marriott Silver
Posts: 151
I don't feel that I am treated differently. Often questions in overseas countries are directed to hubby and he defers them back to me e.g. if he's not wearing his glasses to read and pay the bill.
I don't want special treatment on a plane. I like being left alone. When folks interact with me, I want them to treat me the same as they would treat anyone else. I don't want them fawning over me every few minutes asking me if I want this or that.
I have more of a problem on the ground when with my husband. I said to one sales guy who totally ignored me "don't you know it is us women who make the final choices on colour, style, price etc.. you should direct your questions to me!"
I don't want special treatment on a plane. I like being left alone. When folks interact with me, I want them to treat me the same as they would treat anyone else. I don't want them fawning over me every few minutes asking me if I want this or that.
I have more of a problem on the ground when with my husband. I said to one sales guy who totally ignored me "don't you know it is us women who make the final choices on colour, style, price etc.. you should direct your questions to me!"
OTOH, I find I never have to do this if DH is not with me.
Other than literally upgrading 2 minutes before walking onto a plane; I've never been questioned about being in first. I've also never been treated any differently than anyone else in that cabin; that I could tell. Of course, I've not yet flown F or J international; so maybe that will change. But I think our (mine and DH's) personalities help. I am the strong confident one. The go getter. DH is the laid back anything goes. People definitely give him more crap than me.
A thought about HelloKittysMum's experience:
In restaurants, I notice that men tend to get better service. After observing why, I came to the conclusion that men are generally better tippers than women are. When my father pays, he tips at least 20%. When my mother pays, the figure is closer to 10%. And it's not just my parents whom I have observed- I have observed their friends too. Females are more likely to order free water as a beverage. The waiter is probably thinking that a single woman dining alone would yield a low bill total, poorly tipped table so he couldn't justify giving her the nice table.
During the handful of times I dined with my younger siblings at seat-in restaurants, I usually gave a 15% of pre-tax bill tip. Do you think it's decent enough? I don't want us females to be stereotyped for being bad tippers hence getting worse service.
In restaurants, I notice that men tend to get better service. After observing why, I came to the conclusion that men are generally better tippers than women are. When my father pays, he tips at least 20%. When my mother pays, the figure is closer to 10%. And it's not just my parents whom I have observed- I have observed their friends too. Females are more likely to order free water as a beverage. The waiter is probably thinking that a single woman dining alone would yield a low bill total, poorly tipped table so he couldn't justify giving her the nice table.
During the handful of times I dined with my younger siblings at seat-in restaurants, I usually gave a 15% of pre-tax bill tip. Do you think it's decent enough? I don't want us females to be stereotyped for being bad tippers hence getting worse service.
Aug 7, 2014, 1:07 pm
#44
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Programs: Delta, Starwood, Hilton
Posts: 455
As usual, sexism is a two sided coin. Add in ageism, and it still is sometimes a plus and sometimes a minus. As an older female traveler, sometimes people help with bags, make way for you, check to see if you are ok. And sometimes they assume you are dimwitted because you are older and refer to you as "young lady". I am old enough not to care if someone thinks I am rude when I stand up for myself .I try not to be, but if someone thinks they can steamroll the old lady, well, they have another think coming.
