Fiordland

They are unrelated issues. WS/Delta simply tried to paint them as being related to avoid having to do anything now that they could say was the governments fault.

I have access into Delta business lounges through my AMEX card. Delta and AMEX are not in some government approved JV. If WS wanted their guests to have access to Delta lounges and Delta wanted their guests to have access to WS YYC lounge they could hold a zoom call negotiate a fee structure and it could happen the next day. Having the JV does not magically causes that to occur nor is it a prerequisite. Had WS opened up the 9 lounges it announced a few years back this would have been a wash. Having 1 lounge vrs a large network of lounges means one airline is going to be making more revenue than the other on this.

The silly zone boarding system can be adjusted again after a zoom call. That may take longer, in that computer system may need to be adjusted. However if their IT departments were eager beavers that would have already been done and waiting to be turned on the movement the JV was announced. There is no reason it would be dependent on the JV.

FlyerJ

Compare:


2017 to current:

• Alaska ends reciprocal FF benefits with Delta
• Alaska introduces FF benefits with American
• Alaska introduces enhanced FF benefits with American
• Alaska announces it will join OneWorld, effective May 2021

Also 2017 to current:

• Dec 2017: DL and WS say they will roll out mutual FF benefits
• Nov 2020: WS says it “will explore“ deepening the alliance with Delta for the benefit of our mutual guests
• Throughout the entire three years: no benefits at all, no recognition at all.

DMPHL

I imagined the divestiture was a condition because under a JV with WS, DL would arguably be getting back slots that it was forced to divest previously under the LGA-DCA slot swap agreement with US/AA.

If DL would agree to a condition that it maintain 100% of its current LGA-Canada schedule, maybe that would fly? Then again, one of the purposes of any JV is to coordinate capacity, so I would expect both DL and WS want some capacity reduction/rationalization, which would effectively free up DL slots to serve other markets, therefore getting back to the issue of recapturing previously divested slots.

Fiordland

A reasonable condition would have been to exclude the LGA-YYZ route from the JV. or as you say require the LGA-Canada slots only be used for LGA-Canada routes.

sydneyracquelle

DL flies YYZ>JFK and Westjet flies YYZ>LGA. Note that DL cancelled YYZ>JFK sometime in July and now only flies YYZ>DTW. Once covid is over DL will restart YYZ>JFK.

DMPHL

Good point. Perhaps a fair condition would have been that the current slot allocation for WS' LGA-YYZ flights be maintained, and used only for LGA-Canada flights as part of the JV or that slots must only be used for WS-operated flights. Maybe then any slots not in use for this purpose would be dormant (not for use on any other routes), and subject to minimum utilization requirements to keep them from being re-allocated to other carriers. Maybe that's not the best solution, but I can see how a slot divestiture is a little drastic, when there may be other solutions to keep DL and WS honest here, and prevent a de facto re-capturing by DL of previously divested slots.

keitherson

It's a question of priorities.

LATAM stake and reciprocal benefits were hammered out in less than half a year. WestJet just is not that part important to Delta, and vice-versa.

FlyerJ

Really good point, although I'm not sure if it's because this wasn't a priority to either airline. It seems like they put all their eggs in the JV basket and decided to not do anything until that was approved.

That might be true in Delta's case, but I'm not so sure about WestJet. I have to think this was a priority for them. In order to be a viable offering to business travellers, they needed strong ties and reciprocal customer benefits with a major U.S. carrier. They'd invested in creating a good premium product, a greatly-improved frequent flier program, and were on the path to building lounges ... all needed to compete for business travel.

The big remaining gap in their offering was everything that a U.S. carrier could bring: access to any destination in the U.S. with reciprocal benefits to make it appealing to WestJet customers.

Today, with the demise of the JV - and seemingly nothing at all done on reciprocal customer benefits - WestJet remains nothing more than a leisure carrier for cross-border travel. They're a strong business option domestically, but without any level of combined offering with Delta ... they're really only a vacation carrier.

Other than being an option for business travel to a couple of destinations served on WS metal (NYC, ATL), they're now stuck as the airline for Vegas weekends and Phoenix golf trips and Orlando theme parks.

I really don't think that's where they wanted to be -- hence my belief that this was a top priority for them.

And, for anyone who's thinking they do already have ties with Delta in place: No, they don't. At least not in any way that helps us as customers, and nothing that's really viable for frequent travellers. They have a clunky-at-best codeshare relationship that's actually disadvantageous to WestJet customers flying on Delta.

And, for anyone who's suggesting "don't worry, they will fix this soon": I hope so, but I doubt it. A full three years into this promise of "customer benefits coming soon", and they seem to be right back where they started. Again, per their Nov 20 blog post: they "will explore" doing something now. That's all they're saying. No suggestion of how long this will take, and no hint that they've even talked to their counterparts at Delta. Just "we will explore"...

Frequentlander

True only if business travel only takes you to YVR, YYC, YYZ YHZ and "some" other major centres. Not good for a lot of places where business has to be done.

sydneyracquelle

I thought Westjet bailed on the Maritimes?

YYCguy

Halifax and St. John’s are still being served.

keitherson

I'm afraid you have this backwards. Westjet needs Delta for growth far more than Delta needs Westjet. Delta is a giant.

FlyerJ

That's what I meant! Sorry ... unclear language on my part.

On Time Reports

CEO on Linkedin seems to indicate that after January with a change of presidency, they might re-apply.

FlyerJ

That's great. (Really.) They might have a JV with ATI by, maybe, 2024 then?

None of the things that benefit business travellers actually require a JV, though. A joint venture gives them the ability to coordinate on pricing, route planning and capacities. It is 100% not required to improve the customer experience for WS pax on DL and vice versa.

Countless airlines around the world give each other's customers reciprocal benefits -- like premium check-in, priority boarding, access to better Y cabin seating, an ability to upgrade. Most do that without any joint venture or anti-trust immunity in place -- because those are in no way required in order to offer reciprocal customer benefits. All that is required is that the two airlines agree on a plan and make the required IT links.