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Full Refund vs Credit to Travel Bank amid COVID crisis

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Full Refund vs Credit to Travel Bank amid COVID crisis

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Old Mar 25, 2020, 2:28 pm
  #91  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Programs: WestJet Gold
Posts: 79
The Canadian Transportation Agency (CTA) has taken steps to address the major impacts that the COVID-19 pandemic is having on the airline industry by making temporary exemptions to certain requirements of the Air Passenger Protection Regulations (APPR) that apply from March 13, 2020 until June 30, 2020.

While any specific situation brought before the CTA will be examined on its merits, the CTA believes that, generally speaking, an appropriate approach in the current context could be for airlines to provide affected passengers with vouchers or credits for future travel, as long as these vouchers or credits do not expire in an unreasonably short period of time (24 months would be considered reasonable in most cases).

Read the full text here:
https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/statement-vouchers
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Old Mar 25, 2020, 2:54 pm
  #92  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,444
Originally Posted by wzzy22
The Canadian Transportation Agency (CTA) has taken steps to address the major impacts that the COVID-19 pandemic is having on the airline industry by making temporary exemptions to certain requirements of the Air Passenger Protection Regulations (APPR) that apply from March 13, 2020 until June 30, 2020.

While any specific situation brought before the CTA will be examined on its merits, the CTA believes that, generally speaking, an appropriate approach in the current context could be for airlines to provide affected passengers with vouchers or credits for future travel, as long as these vouchers or credits do not expire in an unreasonably short period of time (24 months would be considered reasonable in most cases).

Read the full text here:
https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/statement-vouchers
Seems like the CTA is taking a reasonable approach to the poor situation.
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Old Mar 25, 2020, 3:05 pm
  #93  
 
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Posts: 893
Originally Posted by aerobod
Seems like the CTA is taking a reasonable approach to the poor situation.
Extending the validity of the credit makes total sense. The economy is upended and many people may not be in a position to go anywhere for some time yet.
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Old Mar 25, 2020, 3:53 pm
  #94  
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 302
Originally Posted by wzzy22
While any specific situation brought before the CTA will be examined on its merits, the CTA believes that, generally speaking, an appropriate approach in the current context could be for airlines to provide affected passengers with vouchers or credits for future travel, as long as these vouchers or credits do not expire in an unreasonably short period of time (24 months would be considered reasonable in most cases).
I bet the bureaucrats thought long and hard about the "could". At the end of the day they're asking travellers to give airlines a potentially two year interest-free loan.
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Old Mar 25, 2020, 4:30 pm
  #95  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Originally Posted by mathemagic
I bet the bureaucrats thought long and hard about the "could". At the end of the day they're asking travellers to give airlines a potentially two year interest-free loan.
If not the travelers, it'll be taxpayers giving a loan. Gov't probably looking at this as more of a "user pay" model for loaning the airline money. Not saying its right... Taxpayer money likely coming anyways.
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Old Mar 25, 2020, 4:37 pm
  #96  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: YYC
Posts: 2,075
Originally Posted by YEG USER
Ironically, the settlement in this suit was that each of the flight pass purchasers received an eCoupon from AC for approximately $503, valid for 1 year.

Cheap Western Canada Flight Pass

Purchasers didn't get a refund, nor was the airline forced to honour the flight pass. Whether it was worth the lawsuit in the end, I can't say as I wasn't involved.
I was one of the bottom feeders who participated in this error price for the flight pass. I did receive a refund to my CC within a couple of days and also received the $503 eCoupon. I'm happy to take their money if a court of law has deemed they owe it to me, but I would never initiate such action. It was clearly a mistake and they cancelled the pass with a refund quickly.
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Old Mar 25, 2020, 4:45 pm
  #97  
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,204
Originally Posted by wzzy22
The Canadian Transportation Agency (CTA) has taken steps to address the major impacts that the COVID-19 pandemic is having on the airline industry by making temporary exemptions to certain requirements of the Air Passenger Protection Regulations (APPR) that apply from March 13, 2020 until June 30, 2020.

While any specific situation brought before the CTA will be examined on its merits, the CTA believes that, generally speaking, an appropriate approach in the current context could be for airlines to provide affected passengers with vouchers or credits for future travel, as long as these vouchers or credits do not expire in an unreasonably short period of time (24 months would be considered reasonable in most cases).

Read the full text here:
https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/statement-vouchers
The exemptions mentioned by the CTA are limited to exemptions from food, accomodation and compensation for flight delays. It doesn't address refunds for flights cancelled by airlines.


Despite what the airline and travel industry shills or bootlickers might want to believe, that CTA's wishy washy statement about vouchers is just an opinion and is not a regulation nor a law. Even if it were a CTA regulation, it doesn't override consumers' chargeback rights, nor the tariffs nor the consumer protection laws before the courts.

The CTA recommended a 24 months expiry, but they should also recommend certain flexibility and usage standards such as guaranteed transferrability, combinability and non-loss of residual values when used for cheaper flights.

Quebec's Consumer Protection Act
54.13. Within 15 days following the cancellation of the contract, the merchant must refund all sums paid by the consumer under the contract and any accessory contract, including sums paid to a third person.
Within 15 days following the cancellation of the contract or following delivery if it postdates cancellation, the consumer must restore the goods that were the object of the contract to the merchant in the same state in which they were received.
The merchant shall assume the reasonable costs of restitution.
2006, c. 56, s. 5.

54.14. If the merchant defaults on the obligation to make a refund under section 54.13 and the consumer has paid by credit card, the consumer may, within 60 days following the default, request the card issuer to chargeback all amounts paid under the contract and any accessory contract, and to cancel all charges made to the consumer’s account in relation to those contracts.
2006, c. 56, s. 5.

54.15. A chargeback request must be in writing and contain the following information:
(a) the credit cardholder’s name;
(b) the credit card number and expiry date;
(c) the merchant’s name;
(d) the date the contract was entered into;
(e) the amount charged to the credit card account and the sums to be refunded by the merchant;
(f) a description of the goods or services that are the object of the contract and for which chargeback is requested;
(g) the reason for cancelling the contract; and
(h) the date of cancellation and the means used to send the cancellation notice.
2006, c. 56, s. 5.

54.16. A credit card issuer that receives a chargeback request must
(a) acknowledge receipt within 30 days;
(b) make the chargeback and cancel all credit card charges in connection with the distance contract and any accessory contract within 90 days or two complete periods, as defined in section 67, following receipt of the request, whichever comes first.
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Old Mar 25, 2020, 5:09 pm
  #98  
 
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booked a flight on west jet months ago on pts with a cibc credit card to go out west from east coast , paid some of price with pts some with cash , westjet canceled flight , i canceled credit card after i booked flight , cibc telling me have i have travel credit as per West Jet good will policy, refund is not allowed., i prefer to get my money back as when i book a flight i have to go to cibc rewards again to book flight , rather be able to book with anyone i want as i dont have credit card with them anymore , any info on this be great
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Old Mar 25, 2020, 6:01 pm
  #99  
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,204
Originally Posted by radoak
booked a flight on west jet months ago on pts with a cibc credit card to go out west from east coast , paid some of price with pts some with cash , westjet canceled flight , i canceled credit card after i booked flight , cibc telling me have i have travel credit as per West Jet good will policy, refund is not allowed., i prefer to get my money back as when i book a flight i have to go to cibc rewards again to book flight , rather be able to book with anyone i want as i dont have credit card with them anymore , any info on this be great
Just insist to CIBC that the open a chargeback dispute under the motive of merchandise/services not delivered. If you get an uncooperative agents, hang up and call again. If all else fails, consider writing to your representative and small claims court. Also contact the lawyers who initiated this class action lawsuit so they may add Westjet to it: Lachaine v. Air Transat and Air Canada et al. (COVID-19) ? Perrier Attorneys
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Old Mar 26, 2020, 12:46 am
  #100  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,444
Information on credit card chargebacks relative to Covid-19 from a travel industry expert, rather than an emotional consumer:
https://bcove.video/33HXRzA
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Old Mar 26, 2020, 7:02 pm
  #101  
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 57
Originally Posted by aerobod
Information on credit card chargebacks relative to Covid-19 from a travel industry expert, rather than an emotional consumer:
https://bcove.video/33HXRzA
Well, he started to talk about chargebacks and then the rest of it was a commercial for travel agents.

Who the heck is going to read the terms and conditions and then proceed to interpret a force majeure clause? The bottom line is that the consumer did not receive a product paid for. The bank can look into it and decide to proceed or not to proceed. Realistically, if people are filing an insurance claim, let's say for their house by analogy, they don't read the policy's term and conditions. They file the claim and hope for the best.

My experience with chargebacks is that the bank decides if you have a case based on what you tell them. They put it through if they agree with you and wait for a response, if any from the merchant. I think this guy may know the travel business but not the banking business.

BTW, he said he spoke with VISA but I think chargebacks are bank specific not VISA specific. I just spoke with my bank today and they confirmed I had 120 days to file a dispute and this was for a VISA card.
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starchoice is offline  
Old Mar 26, 2020, 7:06 pm
  #102  
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 57
Originally Posted by radoak
booked a flight on west jet months ago on pts with a cibc credit card to go out west from east coast , paid some of price with pts some with cash , westjet canceled flight , i canceled credit card after i booked flight , cibc telling me have i have travel credit as per West Jet good will policy, refund is not allowed., i prefer to get my money back as when i book a flight i have to go to cibc rewards again to book flight , rather be able to book with anyone i want as i dont have credit card with them anymore , any info on this be great
It's somewhat of an issue but from the standpoint of the bank, if you have credits, why would they refund you? Look at it from another angle. You buy something from a retailer and it's not as advertised so you return it but the store has a no refund policy, exchange or credit only. It doesn't make sense to try for a chargeback in this case which is pretty much along the same lines. WestJet does state that you can get a refund down the road but not at this time.
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Old Mar 26, 2020, 8:10 pm
  #103  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,444
Originally Posted by starchoice
Well, he started to talk about chargebacks and then the rest of it was a commercial for travel agents.

Who the heck is going to read the terms and conditions and then proceed to interpret a force majeure clause? The bottom line is that the consumer did not receive a product paid for. The bank can look into it and decide to proceed or not to proceed. Realistically, if people are filing an insurance claim, let's say for their house by analogy, they don't read the policy's term and conditions. They file the claim and hope for the best.

My experience with chargebacks is that the bank decides if you have a case based on what you tell them. They put it through if they agree with you and wait for a response, if any from the merchant. I think this guy may know the travel business but not the banking business.

BTW, he said he spoke with VISA but I think chargebacks are bank specific not VISA specific. I just spoke with my bank today and they confirmed I had 120 days to file a dispute and this was for a VISA card.
The bank may handle a claim, but VISA or Mastercard together with the Acquirers (such as First Data or Moneris) will set the policies that the banks follow as they set the rates and conditions such as PCI requirements for transaction security. For single chargebacks the banks will have leeway, but in the case of a systematic chargeback across the industry, the banks will have to follow the card and acquirer requirements, hence VISA will be in the middle of determining whether widespread chargebacks for COVID-19 will be allowed or not and won't take a stance that will damage their business, so have to tread a fine line between consumer and merchant.
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Old Mar 26, 2020, 8:41 pm
  #104  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
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Posts: 893
Originally Posted by starchoice

Who the heck is going to read the terms and conditions and then proceed to interpret a force majeure clause?
That right there is the entire point of multiple pages of terms and conditions in legalese.
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Frequentlander is offline  
Old Mar 26, 2020, 9:08 pm
  #105  
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,204
Originally Posted by aerobod
Information on credit card chargebacks relative to Covid-19 from a travel industry expert, rather than an emotional consumer:
https://bcove.video/33HXRzA
He's just another travel industry shill, working for a magazine called Travel Pulse for travel agents. Someone on this thread here is also another of their shills who only things about themselves and who they work for, clearly on an agenda to defend the airlines and travel industry. Not surprising since they admitted themselves working for or having Westjet and Air Canada as clients.


Here are the consumer rights, from the horse's mouth Quebec's Consumer Protection agency
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com &sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.opc.gouv.qc.ca/consommateur/bien-service/voyage/fonds-indemnisation/covid-19/


My flight has been canceled and the airline is offering me credit on a future trip. Should I accept it? i

The situations in which consumers may find themselves are varied and a multitude of rules apply. These are complex legal situations about which it is difficult to pronounce without making a case-by-case analysis.

It is not illegal for an airline to offer various solutions to the customer whose flight has been canceled.

It may be advantageous to accept this proposal if it suits you, in particular because it provides you with rapid compensation while minimizing your efforts.

However, the client may be tempted to refuse when the credit is subject to restrictive conditions, such as an expiration date or a penalty.

The Office recommends that you check the conditions attached to the use of a travel credit before accepting it.Make sure you can use it for a reasonable period of time, such as 24 months, and that there is no penalty for accepting such credit. Also, confirm if you can use it only for yourself or if it is used for someone else, such as a family member.

The FICAV could take into account the acceptance of such a credit when the time comes to assess the value of the claim.

If it is a purchase made on the Web or by telephone, for example without the intermediary of a travel agent, the consumer can benefit from specific provisions of the law, which provide in particular, in the event of refusal reimbursement of a duly canceled contract, the possibility of requiring the chargeback by the issuer of the credit card with which the purchase was made. The card issuer must then recall the payment to reimburse the consumer.

Last edited by hoipolloi; Mar 26, 2020 at 9:17 pm
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