Frequentlander

https://globalnews.ca/news/6012053/h...estjet-flight/

More basic fare woes.

tcook052

It mystifies me why someone with such special needs would buy a basic fare. I wonder if they think it was worth the small savings given what transpired.

FlyerJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcook052

It mystifies me why someone with such special needs would buy a basic fare.

Or, more importantly, it mystifies me why someone with such special needs would cut their arrival at the airport so close, rather than allowing for ample time to get through the airport. He didn’t.

I call BS.

He claims he arrived at the airport with plenty of time to spare, but was held up for a whopping 45 minutes while CATSA inspected his carry-on bags. Hmmmmmm.

And in spite of that, he still managed to arrive at his gate - he says - 10 minutes prior to departure. I.e. exactly when the doors closed. But a WestJet manager told him he “wasn’t allowed” to board... even though the plane was right there! (Hint: he arrived at the gate too late, and he missed his flight.)

And to hit home the point that WestJet was at fault, the plane just sat at the gate for another 10 minutes. Not moving! Shocker!

The guy cut his arrival time at the airport too close. He arrived late.

He arrived at the gate after the door closed. He was late. He missed his flight.

Nothing here was mean ol’ WestJet “not allowing” him to fly. HE. WAS. LATE.

What I find most intriguing here is that the guy takes absolutely no personal responsibility for being late. Or for being the reason that he missed his flight. And the journalist seems to have not asked him about that key part of the story. Instead, both “victim” and reporter blame WestJet for everything. It’s all WestJet’s fault.

Dude, take some responsibility here.

If you arrive at the airport late, or get to your gate after the door is closed, or miss your flight for any other avoidable reason, it is YOUR fault. Don’t run to the media with a sob story. Don’t smear WestJet online. Instead, take some personal responsibility.

Sheesh.

FlyerJ

Huh? What the heck is this WestJet “special program”?

And given that he wouldn’t be allowed to sit in an exit row (which are the extra legroom seats), where exactly does this program seat people???

(And, to both the reporter and the victim: he essentially flew as a last minute standby on those flights. Which means - even if this special program really does exist - any extra legroom seats would already have been taken. While this is apparently another grievance at mean old uncaring WestJet, come on. Are they supposed to take assigned/purchased seats away from other passengers and give them to you - due only to the fact that you showed up late for and missed your original flight?)

Error 601

Having travelled with my mother when she was in a wheel chair and carrying medication in a cooler that is completely 100% believable to me. Half my mother's interactions with CATSA seemed to involve somebody who has never so much as encountered a person in a wheel chair before in any context at any point in their lives which then necessitates the summoning of multiple layers of supervisors.

The TSA is usually a little better but one bad day in PHX I thought I just might get arrested it was going so badly. We were being paged by American for immediate boarding by the time the TSA let her through.

FlyerJ

Fair enough.

So, if that’s to be expected, and since he has mobility issues and unique needs in getting through an airport and in boarding an aircraft, why would this guy only arrive at the airport 90 minutes before his flight ... 55 minutes before boarding? And only 45 minutes before wheelchair boarding?

That’s when I’d typically arrive for a domestic flight ... but that’s as an able-bodied frequent flier with NEXUS privileges at security (who would never buy a Basic fare, because traffic or security delays or whatever can and do happen).

The guy was late. Period. His fault. And he chose to buy a non-changeable/non-refundable fare option. Entirely his choice. But now he and the media are on a “blame WestJet” rampage.

Error 601

Last year it took me more than an hour to get through security at the international terminal at ATL at noon. It had never previously taken me more than ten minutes even when Precheck was closed.

Delta had to hold several flights because there were hundreds of people trying to get through a single security line. Of course in that situation there was a really nice Delta lady working the line letting everyone know that they could relax and they weren't leaving anyone behind.

I don't think casual travelers are necessarily aware of just how poorly trained, poorly equipped and short-staffed airport security can be. During the time my mother was wheelchair bound she was really shocked at just how much of a fuss it could be. It never occurred to her that she would have to wait around while multiple supervisors were summoned so they could ask her the same four question over and over again.

1. "Is this your son?"
2. "Can you stand-up?"
3. "Can you walk five steps?"
4. "Are you sure, can you please try?"

And that is assuming the bozo at the xray was aware of medical exemptions for coolers, which was no better than 50/50.

If WestJet wants to hold the line on basic fares offering no cancellations, no changes, no seat selection, no baggage and no accruals. Fine, stupid but basically ethical.

If WestJet is going to hold the line on basic fares offering absolutely no assistance under any circumstances regardless of fault and basic standards of decency, that is just uhh... phallic.

coastgirl

So yeah, he cut it closer than I would cut it. But the point remains that WS says 90 mins before domestic flights, and he was there 90 mins before. I don't think that's anything to do with the fare class. Honestly, now that I think of it, if they say "90 minutes for the able bodied but 2 hrs for the disabled", that in itself is discrimination. The working of the system should be viable for all, not just some. (Makes me think of the ongoing FAA process to test that evacuations have to work for the AVERAGE passenger in a more crowded plane--older folks with gympy knees and people who aren't at their target weight. I know I read it here, but here's the link I could find. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/01/faa-...ne-cabins.html)

Then there's the rubbing-salt-into-the-wound that (a) a Westjetter told him at security that they WOULD wait and then (b) another Westjetter told him told they couldn't make an exception for him, and (c), at his next flight, he sat waiting while they made an exception for someone else.

If they couldn't treat him with dignity on the rescheduled flights then maybe they should've given a bit more thought to NOT cutting him off, when it was clearly discretionary. What bothers me is that someone said they would wait, because they could tell he was in a tough situation. Then they broke their word. I know it's all he-said-she-said, but we do a terrible job of supporting people with disabilities, and this gong show went from bad to worse.

FlyerJ

They recommend a minimum of 90 minutes. Minimum.

And yes. As cold as it might sound, that would assume someone who doesn’t have special needs.

When I travel with my mom (mobility impaired, with a walker) I build in lots of extra time. When I travel with my kids, I build in extra time.

And wheelchair boarding takes place 45 minutes prior to departure — because it takes more time and requires assistance. That means this guy allowed himself only 45 minutes to get from curb to check-in to security to the gate. That was a bad decision. And it was his decision.

Do they need to publish different “minimum recommended arrival times” for different traveller types and different ability levels? I would hope not, as I would hope common sense would prevail.

WestJet did not deny this guy boarding or - as he stated - not “allow” him on the plane. That’s ridiculous. He was late. He missed his flight.

His complaint that he didn’t get preferred seating on his last minute (essentially stand-by) flights? From how he describes it, that’s a preference more than a physical or medical requirement. So he’s mad at WestJet for not bumping confirmed passengers out of their chosen seats.

His complaint that they didn’t hold the plane for him (and apparently three others)? What about the other 150 people on that plane. The ones who arrived on time. He wants their plane held because he (and the other 3) showed up late? Connections be damned! So sorry everyone. I’ve now arrived, so re-open that door and delay the flight. For me.

This stuff drives me nuts. This sense of entitlement that so many people have — while avoiding any responsibility at all for their own predicament.

But I do agree with the comments above re Basic fares. 100%. The fact that WS (and others) essentially abandon people who miss their flights ... all in the name of the T&Cs of Basic? That’s a problem, as the same infrequent, uninformed fliers who would buy Basic are the same ones who will show up late, or get lost in an airport, or generally not understand how to get themselves onto a plane. And that’s what leads to negative (albeit stupid) media stories like this, and viral social media negativity towards WS.

Fiordland

I disagree. He said he checked his second wheelchair in as checked baggage on the flight. The second wheelchair made the flight. Clearly he presented himself to a WestJet baggage checkin agent with adequate time to make the flight.

It is irresponsible of WestJet to not re-book someone who arrived with adequate time at the baggage drop off, but was delayed by CASTA. If WestJet has a problem with how promptly CASTA screens passangers that is an issue that WestJet needs to resolve with CASTA. They should be honoring the commitment they made to this passenger.

Why was his second wheelchair not pulled from the flights cargo compartment. Canada has rules where airlines must pull the bags of passengers that do not make it on to the aircraft.

FlyerJ

I get what you’re saying, but I disagree. An airline being able to get a checked bag onto a plane does not absolve a passenger of their responsibility to arrive early enough to actually get themselves to the gate.

Pre-board screening in our country is, unfortunately, frequently a horrible passenger experience.

CATSA is, IMO, an utterly incompetent organization. At my home airport (YYC) screening times and queues vary wildly from day to day and week to week — without any change to flight or passenger volumes. On a recent flight out at cross-border, it took me over 45 minutes to clear security — even with NEXUS. Just this afternoon, I saw that frustrated people are posting images of ridiculously long queues at YYC’s C concourse on Twitter. How CATSA can’t staff appropriately or manage known passenger volumes or create an intelligent NEXUS option (like TSA Pre) is beyond me. They’re a joke, but survive because they at least successfully fulfill their mandate of keeping water bottles and toothpaste off of planes.

The guy in this article gave himself only 45 minutes from arrival at the airport to when wheelchair boarding for his flight would take place (ie about 45 min prior to take-off). His choice. And that turned out to be a bad choice, because if his account is accurate it was one of CATSA’s all-too-frequent bad days. But given when he arrived at the airport, it would have been pretty tight timing even if CATSA had been efficient that day. That wasn’t WestJet’s fault.

He should have arrived earlier. If I’d been on that same flight, I would have — even without a wheelchair and with NEXUS.

Should WestJet (and AC, and everyone else) pressure CATSA to be better? Sure. Absolutely. I’d love it if they did, but - even if that happened - I’m pretty sure it would just fall on deaf ears. I’d also love for airport authorities in Canada to push aggressively on CATSA to improve. I believe some have tried, but - again - deaf ears from a bureaucratic organization.

(On a side note, my understanding is that CATSA is essentially powerless to change anything in their own procedures because they’re strapped for cash. They receive only a portion of the taxes that are collected on airline tickets in the name of airport security, with the rest going in to general revenue. That’s politicians’ choice, not CATSA’s. And - sadly - making preboard screening faster or reliable isn’t an issue that any politician will ever be motivated to care about.)

Ultimately, it’s great that an airline can get a bag on board in far less time than it takes for a person to get through security. That doesn’t take the onus from me to get to the airport in time to still get myself through security and to the gate on time.

(As for the checked baggage staying on board, yes, I agree with you. And I wholeheartedly agree that WestJet needs to shoulder some responsibility to transport people who’ve missed their flight — even if it’s their fault, and even if they bought a Basic fare.)

calgaryhhr

On a domestic flight not all bags need to be pulled if the passenger is not on board. Only in some circumstances do the bags need to be pulled.

Fiordland

Interesting, so with a Basic fare, how does this work at WestJet if your bags made it on the flight but your denied boarding because you arrive at the gate. Is WestJet responsible to fly the bags back to the point or origin? Will they refund the baggage fees?

Fiordland

I don't think we are going agree on the passenger. My simplistic view if he arrives at the first step in the process (check in counter) with what the airlines accepts as adequate time then he has done his part.

As for CATSA. I don't know what it is with this team in Calgary. They have distinguished themselves in a unique way from all their other counterparts in other airports. I expect more nonsense in Calgary than other airports.

When a dysfunctional organisation says "we don't have enough money" it usually means they have to much. I don't think the problem is lack of people or money. I think the problem is the silly things they do.

aerobod

I fly out of Calgary 3 or 4 times a month, usually Sunday evening or Monday morning and this year I haven’t taken longer than 10 mins to get through the Nexus line at the domestic “C” gates, usually it takes less than 5 minutes.