DL and WS New Transborder Joint Venture
Aug 13, 2019, 3:45 pm
#31
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: YYZ
Programs: Skymiles GM, UA Silver, Marriott Titanium, National EE, Hertz 5*
Posts: 383
But yes, also on my wishlist is 100% MQMs and a free checked bag... since normally we get 0 on WS tickets. Would also like seat selection.
Or at the very least, if it's a DL ticket with the first ticket operated by WS and I need to go to the counter to get my baggage fees waived, I'd like to not have to wait in the long line for normal check-ins, and at least be able to use the WS Gold line lol.
Aug 13, 2019, 4:28 pm
#32
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL, OZ, AC, AS, AA, BA, Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott, IHG
Posts: 19,910
I'm also looking forward to approval, but keep in mind that the US government isn't as easy on approving these, based on historical Korean Air and Aeromexico....
But yes, also on my wishlist is 100% MQMs and a free checked bag... since normally we get 0 on WS tickets. Would also like seat selection.
Or at the very least, if it's a DL ticket with the first ticket operated by WS and I need to go to the counter to get my baggage fees waived, I'd like to not have to wait in the long line for normal check-ins, and at least be able to use the WS Gold line lol.
But yes, also on my wishlist is 100% MQMs and a free checked bag... since normally we get 0 on WS tickets. Would also like seat selection.
Or at the very least, if it's a DL ticket with the first ticket operated by WS and I need to go to the counter to get my baggage fees waived, I'd like to not have to wait in the long line for normal check-ins, and at least be able to use the WS Gold line lol.
Aug 15, 2019, 5:53 pm
#33
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The World
Programs: WS Platinum, Marriott Titanium, DL Gold, UA Silver
Posts: 1,478
Here I sit . . . in the Minneapolis airport . . . frustrated once again by the current state of the Delta-WestJet arrangement. And most of my frustration, once again, comes down to what I assume are IT glitches.
I booked YYC-MSP, MSP-YYC . . . on a WestJet ticket, with both segments operated by Delta. Both regular economy tickets, at the same fare class.
On the first segment, I had access to online seat selection via Delta's (awesome) website. Full access to the Delta seat map for the flight, and the ability to choose my own seat. On segment number two, I could never, ever see the seat map. Instead, I just saw constant "we're sorry" messages from the Delta website -- on the app, on the website, before check-in, during check-in. And the inability to select my own seat. Grrrr. (It was absolutely, positively not a 'Basic' ticket.)
Problem # 2: after checking in for segment number two, I see that my KTN is nowhere to be found and my boarding pass doesn't show access to TSA Pre. (My KTN is in my profile with our corporate travel agent. And it's in my WestJet profile. And it's in my Delta profile. It absolutely should have been linked to this reservation.)
Upon arrival at MSP, I try updating my BP to include my KTN at the Delta check-in kiosk. No luck -- adding a KTN is not available via their kiosk. After looking at my two remaining options (wait in the TSA Regular line vs wait in the Delta "Special Services" line at check-in), I choose to go to the Delta counter to get my BP corrected.
I had a great Delta agent there. She took my NEXUS card and quickly added my KTN, and reprinted my BP giving me TSA Pre access. I asked her why I'm having these constant problems. She subtly rolled her eyes and essentially answered: because WestJet. Problems with WS tickets on DL flights, it seems, are not uncommon.
Argh. Somebody . . . please fix this.
(I'd be absolutely thrilled to have reciprocal status recognition between the two companies. But first, I'd be really thrilled if things would just work. Please.)
I booked YYC-MSP, MSP-YYC . . . on a WestJet ticket, with both segments operated by Delta. Both regular economy tickets, at the same fare class.
On the first segment, I had access to online seat selection via Delta's (awesome) website. Full access to the Delta seat map for the flight, and the ability to choose my own seat. On segment number two, I could never, ever see the seat map. Instead, I just saw constant "we're sorry" messages from the Delta website -- on the app, on the website, before check-in, during check-in. And the inability to select my own seat. Grrrr. (It was absolutely, positively not a 'Basic' ticket.)
Problem # 2: after checking in for segment number two, I see that my KTN is nowhere to be found and my boarding pass doesn't show access to TSA Pre. (My KTN is in my profile with our corporate travel agent. And it's in my WestJet profile. And it's in my Delta profile. It absolutely should have been linked to this reservation.)
Upon arrival at MSP, I try updating my BP to include my KTN at the Delta check-in kiosk. No luck -- adding a KTN is not available via their kiosk. After looking at my two remaining options (wait in the TSA Regular line vs wait in the Delta "Special Services" line at check-in), I choose to go to the Delta counter to get my BP corrected.
I had a great Delta agent there. She took my NEXUS card and quickly added my KTN, and reprinted my BP giving me TSA Pre access. I asked her why I'm having these constant problems. She subtly rolled her eyes and essentially answered: because WestJet. Problems with WS tickets on DL flights, it seems, are not uncommon.
Argh. Somebody . . . please fix this.
(I'd be absolutely thrilled to have reciprocal status recognition between the two companies. But first, I'd be really thrilled if things would just work. Please.)
Aug 15, 2019, 7:02 pm
#34
Join Date: May 2013
Location: west coast best coast
Programs: TINDER GOLD, STARBUCKS GOLD, COSTCO EXECUTIVE!!
Posts: 3,989
At LAX, where WS and DL share the same terminal, the Sky Club agents are so well versed in denying WestJet fliers access that they all know to look at the boarding passes to see whether the ticket was issued by Delta, 006 ticket stock to see whether to let fliers in or not.
The situation is pathetic, you basically have to choose between connecting with Delta or flying nonstop with Westjet. The DL codeshares on WS metal are usually always significantly more expensive.
The situation is pathetic, you basically have to choose between connecting with Delta or flying nonstop with Westjet. The DL codeshares on WS metal are usually always significantly more expensive.
Aug 16, 2019, 1:24 pm
#35
Suspended
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Copenhagen
Programs: skyteam
Posts: 582
It is obvious here that since yes WS and DL are only codeshare partners , WestJet is neither in the skyteam alliance nor are they joint venture partners which creates many of these issues. I am confident that once the Joint venture is approved and finalized , then and only then will a passenger begin to see improvements with tech, and these other issues. Patience is key here in my view. Even more so if and when WS decides to join Skyteam alliance. I have adjusted my expectations as such until more major milestones between the two carriers are reached. Less disappointment for me that way.
Aug 16, 2019, 1:28 pm
#36
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: WS Nothing, AC Something, AS Gold. Too big for 737Max washrooms
Posts: 893
How confident are you that this is going to happen, and what is the level of confidence based on?
I think (based on absolutely no insider information) that we are years rather than months away....if at all.
I think (based on absolutely no insider information) that we are years rather than months away....if at all.
Aug 16, 2019, 1:32 pm
#37
Suspended
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Copenhagen
Programs: skyteam
Posts: 582
I am very confident as this is the roadmap hence why the joint venture was proposed years ago. I also gave no time frame as well due to the fact that there are several key initiatives that WS needs to accomplish before an application to Skyteam is feasible, for one example ,the construction and completion of WS own J lounges.
Aug 16, 2019, 4:39 pm
#38
Join Date: May 2013
Location: west coast best coast
Programs: TINDER GOLD, STARBUCKS GOLD, COSTCO EXECUTIVE!!
Posts: 3,989
I am very confident as this is the roadmap hence why the joint venture was proposed years ago. I also gave no time frame as well due to the fact that there are several key initiatives that WS needs to accomplish before an application to Skyteam is feasible, for one example ,the construction and completion of WS own J lounges.
Aug 16, 2019, 4:48 pm
#39
Suspended
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Copenhagen
Programs: skyteam
Posts: 582
also a possibility. There is also the manner that to effectively compete against Air Canada internationally, WS is going to need the same lift and capabilities that Air Canada has with the star alliance . Those carriers you mentioned , different markets, different execution strategies , not identical landscapes. But we can agree time will tell. I remain optimistic with any change. As they once said at WS “ we will never fly east of YWG” and look how that turned out, so I am not convinced that Skyteam is not on roadmap completely.
Aug 17, 2019, 2:52 pm
#40
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The World
Programs: WS Platinum, Marriott Titanium, DL Gold, UA Silver
Posts: 1,478
It is obvious here that since yes WS and DL are only codeshare partners , WestJet is neither in the skyteam alliance nor are they joint venture partners which creates many of these issues. I am confident that once the Joint venture is approved and finalized , then and only then will a passenger begin to see improvements with tech, and these other issues.
Code shares are very, very common in the airline world. In absolutely no way is a JV required in order to make a code share work properly and effectively. Absolutely not. Whatever issues and glitches exist with WS tickets on DL flights are not due to the lack of a joint venture agreement.
Ditto with any reciprocal benefits to customers. Delta could sell lounge access to WestJet for WS customers — in exactly the same way that the Aspire Lounges sells access to WestJet. Here, it’s by choice. Either Delta doesn’t want to sell WS access for WS customers, or WS doesn’t want to pay. The reciprocity issue is either by choice, or due to budget constraints, or due to IT constraints. No JV required to offer benefits to WS customers.
A JV, once approved, will allow for the two airlines to cooperate more closely. But it will largely go unnoticed by customers. It’s a legal thing, not a “now I get great, new benefits thing”.
Aug 17, 2019, 6:22 pm
#41
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Delta, BC
Posts: 1,646
A JV is nothing more than a legal structure that allows two companies to behave in way that would otherwise be seen as “anti competitive”.
Code shares are very, very common in the airline world. In absolutely no way is a JV required in order to make a code share work properly and effectively. Absolutely not. Whatever issues and glitches exist with WS tickets on DL flights are not due to the lack of a joint venture agreement.
Ditto with any reciprocal benefits to customers. Delta could sell lounge access to WestJet for WS customers — in exactly the same way that the Aspire Lounges sells access to WestJet. Here, it’s by choice. Either Delta doesn’t want to sell WS access for WS customers, or WS doesn’t want to pay. The reciprocity issue is either by choice, or due to budget constraints, or due to IT constraints. No JV required to offer benefits to WS customers.
A JV, once approved, will allow for the two airlines to cooperate more closely. But it will largely go unnoticed by customers. It’s a legal thing, not a “now I get great, new benefits thing”.
Aug 17, 2019, 8:07 pm
#42
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Vancouver
Programs: Aeroplan, Mileage Plus, WestJet Gold, AMEX Plat
Posts: 2,026
A JV is nothing more than a legal structure that allows two companies to behave in way that would otherwise be seen as “anti competitive”.
Code shares are very, very common in the airline world. In absolutely no way is a JV required in order to make a code share work properly and effectively. Absolutely not. Whatever issues and glitches exist with WS tickets on DL flights are not due to the lack of a joint venture agreement.
Ditto with any reciprocal benefits to customers. Delta could sell lounge access to WestJet for WS customers — in exactly the same way that the Aspire Lounges sells access to WestJet. Here, it’s by choice. Either Delta doesn’t want to sell WS access for WS customers, or WS doesn’t want to pay. The reciprocity issue is either by choice, or due to budget constraints, or due to IT constraints. No JV required to offer benefits to WS customers.
A JV, once approved, will allow for the two airlines to cooperate more closely. But it will largely go unnoticed by customers. It’s a legal thing, not a “now I get great, new benefits thing”.
As for lounge access that will come with time. I do hope that WestJet gets on with building lounges in major airports in Canada.
Aug 17, 2019, 9:05 pm
#43
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: WS Nothing, AC Something, AS Gold. Too big for 737Max washrooms
Posts: 893
Aug 17, 2019, 10:32 pm
#44
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Vancouver
Programs: Aeroplan, Mileage Plus, WestJet Gold, AMEX Plat
Posts: 2,026
WestJet has taken over the Concourse A lounge in YYC domestic. Apparently that is temporary and a new bigger lounge is coming. When they build a new central security point for all domestic departures a good percentage of the pre-security retail space will disappear and WestJet has a lounge going into that area.
No idea what is happening in the other airports.
No idea what is happening in the other airports.
Aug 18, 2019, 9:02 am
#45
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: WS Nothing, AC Something, AS Gold. Too big for 737Max washrooms
Posts: 893
WestJet has taken over the Concourse A lounge in YYC domestic. Apparently that is temporary and a new bigger lounge is coming. When they build a new central security point for all domestic departures a good percentage of the pre-security retail space will disappear and WestJet has a lounge going into that area.
No idea what is happening in the other airports.
No idea what is happening in the other airports.
So it seems that they are at the planning stage and not the execution stage. Is that a fair assessment?