WestJet vs. Air Canada
Dec 20, 2015, 6:07 pm
#16
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: YQM
Programs: AC 25k
Posts: 319
$399/year is $399/year more than Air Canada charges me for a MLL membership - that's the point I'm trying to make. If WestJet wants to compete, they need to up their lounge game and give an unlimited membership.
Dec 26, 2015, 11:46 pm
#17
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Programs: Aeroplan 75K | Latitude Flight Pass junkie
Posts: 1,549
What about IFE?
One category you didn't consider is the IFE, and Air Canada is far superior. Even on their WestJet-comparable fare, Tango, you still get full, free access to seatback IFE.
Some WestJet aircraft have absolutely no entertainment, and some still have that old Bell TV on tiny screens of CRT quality - but, in my handful of WestJet flights this year, I've never had a working screen.
The new tablet-based system good, but you have to pay for it on WestJet.
Air Canada's new seat-back IFE (already installed on 787 and going in on 777s now) will be pre-installed on all their new 737Max aircraft and is a very cool system with touch/swipe capabilities.
Also, all of AC's narrow-body fleet will have WiFi in the next month or two, but where AC has a miss is that they are not doing their wide-bodies, which means on half the flights between YVR and YYZ, there won't be WiFi, and none of their international routes.
Some WestJet aircraft have absolutely no entertainment, and some still have that old Bell TV on tiny screens of CRT quality - but, in my handful of WestJet flights this year, I've never had a working screen.
The new tablet-based system good, but you have to pay for it on WestJet.
Air Canada's new seat-back IFE (already installed on 787 and going in on 777s now) will be pre-installed on all their new 737Max aircraft and is a very cool system with touch/swipe capabilities.
Also, all of AC's narrow-body fleet will have WiFi in the next month or two, but where AC has a miss is that they are not doing their wide-bodies, which means on half the flights between YVR and YYZ, there won't be WiFi, and none of their international routes.
Dec 27, 2015, 12:08 am
#18
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Programs: Aeroplan 75K | Latitude Flight Pass junkie
Posts: 1,549
I considered switching to WS this year, but then I realized I'd have a couple international flights that would keep me above 50K with AC.
Also, frankly, sitting in WestJet Plus just isn't enough of a reward for me. Domestically, it is no better than AC Economy, and on the WS 767, Plus is the same as AC's Premium Economy.
Of course, my domestic flying is between Vancouver and Montreal or Toronto so I can fly in AC's Transcontinental Business Class. Really, these are the only two cities where this would matter.
Also, frankly, sitting in WestJet Plus just isn't enough of a reward for me. Domestically, it is no better than AC Economy, and on the WS 767, Plus is the same as AC's Premium Economy.
Of course, my domestic flying is between Vancouver and Montreal or Toronto so I can fly in AC's Transcontinental Business Class. Really, these are the only two cities where this would matter.
Dec 27, 2015, 2:30 am
#19
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,444
Some WestJet aircraft have absolutely no entertainment, and some still have that old Bell TV on tiny screens of CRT quality - but, in my handful of WestJet flights this year, I've never had a working screen.
The new tablet-based system good, but you have to pay for it on WestJet.
The new tablet-based system good, but you have to pay for it on WestJet.
Only the Internet connectivity is charged for on WestJet Connect, there are about 500 movie and TV programs available for free together with 3 live news channels, for use on guests own Apple, Windows and Android devices. Only if guests choose to rent a tablet as opposed to use their own device do they have to pay for access to movies and TV programs. All seats in WestJet Connect equipped 737s have 110V and USB power.
Dec 27, 2015, 9:17 am
#20
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: YQM
Programs: AC 25k
Posts: 319
One category you didn't consider is the IFE, and Air Canada is far superior. Even on their WestJet-comparable fare, Tango, you still get full, free access to seatback IFE.
Some WestJet aircraft have absolutely no entertainment, and some still have that old Bell TV on tiny screens of CRT quality - but, in my handful of WestJet flights this year, I've never had a working screen.
The new tablet-based system good, but you have to pay for it on WestJet.
Air Canada's new seat-back IFE (already installed on 787 and going in on 777s now) will be pre-installed on all their new 737Max aircraft and is a very cool system with touch/swipe capabilities.
Also, all of AC's narrow-body fleet will have WiFi in the next month or two, but where AC has a miss is that they are not doing their wide-bodies, which means on half the flights between YVR and YYZ, there won't be WiFi, and none of their international routes.
Some WestJet aircraft have absolutely no entertainment, and some still have that old Bell TV on tiny screens of CRT quality - but, in my handful of WestJet flights this year, I've never had a working screen.
The new tablet-based system good, but you have to pay for it on WestJet.
Air Canada's new seat-back IFE (already installed on 787 and going in on 777s now) will be pre-installed on all their new 737Max aircraft and is a very cool system with touch/swipe capabilities.
Also, all of AC's narrow-body fleet will have WiFi in the next month or two, but where AC has a miss is that they are not doing their wide-bodies, which means on half the flights between YVR and YYZ, there won't be WiFi, and none of their international routes.
Dec 27, 2015, 7:12 pm
#21
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Programs: Aeroplan 75K | Latitude Flight Pass junkie
Posts: 1,549
Only the Internet connectivity is charged for on WestJet Connect, there are about 500 movie and TV programs available for free together with 3 live news channels, for use on guests own Apple, Windows and Android devices. Only if guests choose to rent a tablet as opposed to use their own device do they have to pay for access to movies and TV programs. All seats in WestJet Connect equipped 737s have 110V and USB power.
Dec 28, 2015, 12:43 am
#22
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: YYZ/YUL
Programs: UA 1K, AC nadda, DL, WS-Nadda
Posts: 1,476
There are only a few new 737-800s that don't yet have the new WestJet Connect system, otherwise 33 aircraft currently have the system (most of the -800 fleet) the rest of the 767 and 737 fleet will virtually all be installed with the WestJet Connect system in 2016, replacing the Live TV system.
Only the Internet connectivity is charged for on WestJet Connect, there are about 500 movie and TV programs available for free together with 3 live news channels, for use on guests own Apple, Windows and Android devices. Only if guests choose to rent a tablet as opposed to use their own device do they have to pay for access to movies and TV programs. All seats in WestJet Connect equipped 737s have 110V and USB power.
Only the Internet connectivity is charged for on WestJet Connect, there are about 500 movie and TV programs available for free together with 3 live news channels, for use on guests own Apple, Windows and Android devices. Only if guests choose to rent a tablet as opposed to use their own device do they have to pay for access to movies and TV programs. All seats in WestJet Connect equipped 737s have 110V and USB power.
Dec 28, 2015, 8:54 am
#23
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,444
Aerobod, are the 737-600s going to get the wi-fi refresh, or are they going to be phased out infavour of a standardized 737-7 & 738 fleet. I just flew one today the screens in my plus seats were not bright no mater how much you turned up the brightness. Its like they are nearing their best before date. I should also say my WS experience was perfect on all points. Was comped Plus as a gold on the outbound X-mas day, and told it was a holiday gift from the gate agents. Nice touch.
I'm glad that your trip was good. The 13 -600s are currently scheduled to be fitted last as they typically fly the shortest routes, the original schedule was set by the large number of "dark" -800s and the aircraft that were most likely to fly long segments outside of Canada. As the MAXs start coming on line, there are a few -700 lease returns that won't be fitted due to the short time they will remain in the fleet.
Dec 29, 2015, 8:30 am
#24
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE*2MM. SPG Plat life
Posts: 4,644
I’ve always liked the service from WestJet so I started asking myself why I don’t fly them more. I’ll have flown 64 segments with AC by the end of the year but only 12 with WS. I’ve decided to do a vis-a-vis on things that are most important to me as a FF, I hope others can add their opinions to this and hopefully Darren takes notice and maybe change for the better.
Staff (Check-in, GA, FA, Call Centre)
Advantage: WestJet
WestJet wins hands-down on employee attitude and helpfulness.
FF Program (WS Gold vs. AC E50K)
Advantage: Air Canada Elite 50K
Hands-down Air Canada wins this one. Unlimited Star Alliance Lounge visits, 50 eUpgrade points per year (incl. 60 AQS threshold award), Priority Baggage, Priority Contacts trump WestJet’s limited lounge vouchers and limited seat selection vouchers. SDC work in WestJet’s favour, but don’t help me since my departing flight usually leaves at 11:55pm so any later flight would be a different calendar day.
Flight Availability
Advantage: Air Canada
Only one thing matters to me in this category, who will get me from point A to point B quickest. My route is YMM-YQM, departing YMM any time after 7pm. AC gets me home around noon, WS around 5pm. Also for some reason WestJet forces me to take the first YYZ-YOW connection available and won’t let me choose the last available - you might ask why I care? No lounge access in YOW, I’d much rather spend half the day in a lounge at YYZ then in a public area at YOW.
Rewards Booking
Advantage: WestJet
WestJet dollars are much easier to use and offer better clarity than the obfuscated mess that is Aeroplan.
BOB Offering
Advantage: Air Canada
WestJet used to have the advantage here, but Air Canada has upped their game with hot pizza and pasta in addition to the hot meal trays when available. WestJet’s Tapas box just doesn’t compare.
At the end of the day I choose Air Canada because they get me home faster, offer me free upgrades to Business Class and get me unlimited free lounge access in most airports. I also appreciate the better food and priority baggage.
If WestJet were to increase lounge access and offer upgrades to Plus (booked ahead like AC’s eUps - not at-the-gate vouchers like the last one-off package) in addition to having an earlier flight to YQM I’d definitely consider flying with them more.
Staff (Check-in, GA, FA, Call Centre)
Advantage: WestJet
WestJet wins hands-down on employee attitude and helpfulness.
FF Program (WS Gold vs. AC E50K)
Advantage: Air Canada Elite 50K
Hands-down Air Canada wins this one. Unlimited Star Alliance Lounge visits, 50 eUpgrade points per year (incl. 60 AQS threshold award), Priority Baggage, Priority Contacts trump WestJet’s limited lounge vouchers and limited seat selection vouchers. SDC work in WestJet’s favour, but don’t help me since my departing flight usually leaves at 11:55pm so any later flight would be a different calendar day.
Flight Availability
Advantage: Air Canada
Only one thing matters to me in this category, who will get me from point A to point B quickest. My route is YMM-YQM, departing YMM any time after 7pm. AC gets me home around noon, WS around 5pm. Also for some reason WestJet forces me to take the first YYZ-YOW connection available and won’t let me choose the last available - you might ask why I care? No lounge access in YOW, I’d much rather spend half the day in a lounge at YYZ then in a public area at YOW.
Rewards Booking
Advantage: WestJet
WestJet dollars are much easier to use and offer better clarity than the obfuscated mess that is Aeroplan.
BOB Offering
Advantage: Air Canada
WestJet used to have the advantage here, but Air Canada has upped their game with hot pizza and pasta in addition to the hot meal trays when available. WestJet’s Tapas box just doesn’t compare.
At the end of the day I choose Air Canada because they get me home faster, offer me free upgrades to Business Class and get me unlimited free lounge access in most airports. I also appreciate the better food and priority baggage.
If WestJet were to increase lounge access and offer upgrades to Plus (booked ahead like AC’s eUps - not at-the-gate vouchers like the last one-off package) in addition to having an earlier flight to YQM I’d definitely consider flying with them more.
One other area you didn't talk about is safety. Both airlines are safe, but I think AC has higher standards. Already 3x this winter, I have noticed that AC de-ices and WS does not. Last night in WPG, AC de-iced all there flights and WS did not. My WS flight in Oct(YYC) did not de-ice, but looking out window, AC was de-icing. I have notices this for a few years now.
Dec 29, 2015, 9:01 am
#25
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,444
One other area you didn't talk about is safety. Both airlines are safe, but I think AC has higher standards. Already 3x this winter, I have noticed that AC de-ices and WS does not. Last night in WPG, AC de-iced all there flights and WS did not. My WS flight in Oct(YYC) did not de-ice, but looking out window, AC was de-icing. I have notices this for a few years now.
Dec 29, 2015, 9:21 am
#26
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE*2MM. SPG Plat life
Posts: 4,644
There are very strict procedures around de-icing, WestJet follows them exactly. The most important aspect is the inspection before de-icing and the selection of the correct fluid and amount to spray. Just because it is cold doesn't mean there is ice present, conversely if it is above freezing ice can be present due to cold fuel in the wing tanks when the humidity is high. De-icing "just in case" in place of an inspection serves no useful purpose.
Dec 29, 2015, 9:56 am
#27
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,444
Yes, you are correct, but these procedures are the min requirement. AC just seems to have higher standards on safety. The last major snow storm in YVR, Westjet aircraft were sent back to gate for de-icing well on the taxi way, because the pilots didn't think it was required. Higher safety standards do have a useful purpose, but are very expensive.
Money spent is not directly correlated to safety. WestJet will spend money where it is needed and will always keep equipment in good shape (for example, with an average mainline fleet age of 7.9 years and 1.6 years for WestJet Encore, it is one of the youngest for an airline of it's size, Air Canada has an average fleet age of 15.9 years).
Sometimes it is easy to judge an operational procedure as being "inadequate" when you don't have the knowledge to know what is going on. I can tell you I thought de-icing was a simple procedure until I shared an office with the Manager of De-Icing for WestJet a few years ago, there is a lot more to de-icing operations than the layman would think.
Dec 29, 2015, 10:46 am
#28
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The World
Programs: WS Platinum, Marriott Titanium, DL Gold, UA Silver
Posts: 1,478
Love this thread!
Thanks to Rouge, this has been my first year ever (post-CP year, at least) where I have strayed from 100% AC/Star Alliance loyalty.
I'm a mostly-economy-class domestic and cross border flier. My AC status has varied between E50K and SE each year over the past decade.
At 6'4", though, being Rouged on both work and leisure flights was a loyalty-breaker for me. Being stuffed into those horrible 319 seats (while still paying the same price) signalled to me that AC had fired me as a customer.
I'd agree with most of the comments in this thread ... AC wins on some points, and WS on others. I definitely still admire and enjoy mainline AC.
But a recent experience tilts me towards WS:
I just flew Westjet Plus on a 767 (YYC-YYZ). It was great -- equivalent in almost every way to Air Canada's North American J service, EXCEPT for the price.
Hot meal (with menu service), decent wine, big comfy domestic J seats, and great service. WiFi worked very well, allowing me to get plenty of work done.
There were some differences: the service wasn't quite as elegant or refined, glasses and cutlery were plastic, and IFE is streaming rather than on screens. But Westjet also made it clear they're not trying to offer a true J service, but rather a less expensive premium product.
The price: a bit more than AC's Flex fares, and about half AC's discounted J. Phenomenal value!
Considering the number of times I've paid extra $ for AC's Flex fares solely in the hope (usually in vain) of using my limited stash of AC eUp credits, this is a fantastic alternative.
It's not a pod, it's a bit simpler experience than AC, but the price and the value prop are bang on. And no Aero-lotto for limited upgrades required.
The WS Plus product on the 737 is not consistent with the 767 (ie no J seats or hot meals), but I still see it as a good product at good value (ie slightly higher fare than AC Flex, but a far better experience than AC Y class).
Thanks to Rouge, this has been my first year ever (post-CP year, at least) where I have strayed from 100% AC/Star Alliance loyalty.
I'm a mostly-economy-class domestic and cross border flier. My AC status has varied between E50K and SE each year over the past decade.
At 6'4", though, being Rouged on both work and leisure flights was a loyalty-breaker for me. Being stuffed into those horrible 319 seats (while still paying the same price) signalled to me that AC had fired me as a customer.
I'd agree with most of the comments in this thread ... AC wins on some points, and WS on others. I definitely still admire and enjoy mainline AC.
But a recent experience tilts me towards WS:
I just flew Westjet Plus on a 767 (YYC-YYZ). It was great -- equivalent in almost every way to Air Canada's North American J service, EXCEPT for the price.
Hot meal (with menu service), decent wine, big comfy domestic J seats, and great service. WiFi worked very well, allowing me to get plenty of work done.
There were some differences: the service wasn't quite as elegant or refined, glasses and cutlery were plastic, and IFE is streaming rather than on screens. But Westjet also made it clear they're not trying to offer a true J service, but rather a less expensive premium product.
The price: a bit more than AC's Flex fares, and about half AC's discounted J. Phenomenal value!
Considering the number of times I've paid extra $ for AC's Flex fares solely in the hope (usually in vain) of using my limited stash of AC eUp credits, this is a fantastic alternative.
It's not a pod, it's a bit simpler experience than AC, but the price and the value prop are bang on. And no Aero-lotto for limited upgrades required.
The WS Plus product on the 737 is not consistent with the 767 (ie no J seats or hot meals), but I still see it as a good product at good value (ie slightly higher fare than AC Flex, but a far better experience than AC Y class).
Dec 29, 2015, 11:05 am
#29
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The World
Programs: WS Platinum, Marriott Titanium, DL Gold, UA Silver
Posts: 1,478
But if you're bringing up safety, I've questioned my safety on each of my ACRouge flights. Based on ability to evacuate quickly and safely, the Rouge 319s would have to be less safe than AC mainline 319s, and similarly less safe than WS 737s. The reason: Many more people stuffed into those awful planes (but still the same number of exit doors). And many pax - me included - with legs literally wedged into the seat in front of me.
If there was a 'hard landing' or an emergency evacuation required, I would absolutely not want it to happen on one of AC's Rouged 319s or 321s. I'd expect broken kneecaps and a struggle to get out. I'm sure they meet Transport Canada minimum requirements, but no thanks anyway...
Safety advantage: Westjet (and mainline AC).
Dec 29, 2015, 2:40 pm
#30
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Programs: Aeroplan 75K | Latitude Flight Pass junkie
Posts: 1,549