pointshogger

Just a few articles about how WestJet is considering adding another row of seats on its planes.

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/report-...service=mobile

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/west...them-1.2824709

Symmetre

Saw it, and am not pleased at all. I definitely hope they're not the same crappy seats that American has stuffed into their A319s. They're bad enough on a short flight, anything over an hour is sheer torture.

WestJet

I believe (but shouldn't be quoted!) that you're referring to American Airlines's Recaro's CL3620.

We are installing Recaro's BL3520. We wanted a bit more padding in the seat cushion you'll be sitting on, so actually designed that part ourselves.

Symmetre

AA's seats do have a very nice video screen, but the padding on the seat cushion really is too thin. For me at least, the front edge of the seat cushion starts to cut into the back on my legs. It would be okay for a short-haul of an hour or so, but any longer and it gets painful.

Swiss uses what I believe is also a Recaro slimline seat in its intra-Europe domestic flights, on its A320s. These seats also have a larger IFE screen, and are much more comfortable. It might even be the same seat with just a beefier seat pad, it's hard to say. In any case, I'm glad you thickened the seat cusion. I can't do YYZ-YVR or YYZ-YYC in the seats that AA uses.

aerobod

From a seat design perspective with the BL3520s we are installing, reasonable weight saving, increased legroom and good comfort for our longer stage lengths were all balanced, leading to a custom seat cushion, as Darren has said. Ultimate weight saving is not the aim, as may have been the case with other airlines.

Symmetre

Thanks for that, it's good to hear some consideration was given to creature comfort!

While I think everyone understands the desire to improve operating economies, there is a point where it goes too far. I really believe the individuals in the airline industry who champion the super-thin seats and high density layouts with zero legroom have never even set foot on a plane.

capebretonboy

Please do not add an extra row! I will soon choose my domestic flights based on who offers the most comfort.

Soon the government will have to regulate seat pitch or else we will all be flying cross country in 29 inch or worse pitch. It's just basic human comfort and dignity. Don't treat us like cattle.

doug68

regardless, Ill never fly westjet again in my life, at some point the squeezing needs to stop

Qster

+1, my sentiment exactly. I was (am) thinking of switching to WS to avoid the 29 Rouge pitch but if I have to face the same cattle style treatment, the reason to switch is now gone.

WestJet

Hey Qster, please note we're not adding any extra seats and don't have plans to. Any space gains from the new seats will be given back to our guests.

~Darren

rehoult

Then what was Gregg talking about on the earnings call? He specifically mentioned densification.

YEGTigger

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/report-...service=mobile

Now if you want to take bets on how long before they take that inch back...

aerobod

Air Canada mainline has a 31-33" Economy seat pitch in the A320: http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air...bus_A320_B.php
Westjet has a 31-33" Economy seat pitch in the 737-700 and -800:
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Wes...ng_737-700.php
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Wes...ng_737-800.php

WestJet's new BL3520 seats are being installed with the same seat pitch.

Both Air Canada and WestJet have 36-39" seat pitches for Economy Plus if you would like to upgrade.

Altaflyer

This talk of lower fares needs to stop. It's not going to happen! Fares in Canada are very high and the competitive market way too cosy!

aerobod

I thought I would do a bit of fare analysis based on figures published in annual reports. Yield (including ancilliaries) adjusted for stage length is the best comparator. Depending on the opinion, stage length adjustment for single aisle aircraft is around D to the power of -.25 (distance sensitive to the power of minus 0.25). I have adjusted all CAD$ yields to US$ at an exchange of 0.88. Air Canada values are for the first 9 months of 2013 (for some reason I cant find the full 2013 figures), all others are for the whole of 2013. Also, I couldn't find the stage length for Delta, so I used the same as for American.

The yields (cents) and stage lengths (miles) are:

Allegiant 13.76 / 952
Spirit 13.79 / 958
Jet Blue 13.87 / 1090
Southwest 16.02 / 703
WestJet 16.45 / 944 (18.69 Canadian cents)
American 15.26 / 1310
Delta 16.89 / 1310
Air Canada 16.72 / 1476 (19.00 Canadian cents)

When adjusted for a stage length of 1000 miles, the following yields are produced, with the variance from the lowest fare yield in brackets:

Allegiant 13.6
Spirit 13.6
Jet Blue 14.2 (+4%)
Southwest 14.7 (+8%)
WestJet 16.2 (+19%)
American 16.3 (+20%)
Delta 17.7 (+30%)
Air Canada 18.4 (+35%)

If you can take into account the increasing product offering from top to bottom, the price variations are not nearly as much as most people perceive, the main US to Canada difference is in the government and airport taxes added (which are not included in this analysis)