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Old Jan 14, 2014 | 10:38 am
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No ATC delay at DEN

From the FAA. Just be aware if UA is trying to blame a delay on the weather.

The Ground Stop due to [ AIRLINE REQUEST DUE TO GATE ISSUES ASSOCIATED WITH DEICING. DO NOT CHARGE AS AN ATC DELAY!

ASQ GJS RPA SKW TCF INCLUDED! ] to airport [ DEN ]
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Old Jan 14, 2014 | 10:45 am
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Originally Posted by shortkidd
From the FAA. Just be aware if UA is trying to blame a delay on the weather.

The Ground Stop due to [ AIRLINE REQUEST DUE TO GATE ISSUES ASSOCIATED WITH DEICING. DO NOT CHARGE AS AN ATC DELAY!

ASQ GJS RPA SKW TCF INCLUDED! ] to airport [ DEN ]
When/where did you see that message? Is it for a specific flight or DEN in general. It's not on the FAA's OIS nor is it in a format I've seen before from the FAA's system (not that I've seen everything).

Wouldn't deicing be a weather delay?
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Old Jan 14, 2014 | 10:47 am
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Originally Posted by kenn0223
When/where did you see that message? It's not on the FAA's OIS nor is it in a format I've seen before from the FAA's system (not that I've seen everything).
I get emails on all airport delays in the US emailed to me from [email protected]. I have caught UA and AA lying to me about delays not being their fault to get my hotel paid.
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Old Jan 14, 2014 | 10:48 am
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Originally Posted by shortkidd
From the FAA. Just be aware if UA is trying to blame a delay on the weather.

The Ground Stop due to [ AIRLINE REQUEST DUE TO GATE ISSUES ASSOCIATED WITH DEICING. DO NOT CHARGE AS AN ATC DELAY!

ASQ GJS RPA SKW TCF INCLUDED! ] to airport [ DEN ]
I'm confused. The text you quote mentions ATC, but then you mention United trying to blame weather delays. Yes, there are currently no reported ATC delays, but I reckon deicing counts as a weather delay, so it's possible to have weather delays. So, I'm not sure where you're going with this. ATC != Weather?

EDIT: I see now (Ground stop/hold for flights going into DEN due to deicing snarling traffic at DEN), but I still think this is probably counted as a weather delay since the root cause is deicing.

Last edited by coutura; Jan 14, 2014 at 10:55 am
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Old Jan 14, 2014 | 10:53 am
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Originally Posted by shortkidd
I get emails on all airport delays in the US emailed to me from [email protected]. I have caught UA and AA lying to me about delays not being their fault to get my hotel paid.
You get hotel paid? May I ask how?
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Old Jan 14, 2014 | 11:00 am
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Originally Posted by steppie
You get hotel paid? May I ask how?
I have been able to prove to Agent that delay was not weather related by showing them the emails I receive. As long as delay/cancelation is not weather related you are entitled to have your hotel paid for.
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Old Jan 14, 2014 | 11:00 am
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Originally Posted by steppie
You get hotel paid? May I ask how?
Finding the right legacy UA agent.
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Old Jan 14, 2014 | 11:06 am
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Originally Posted by shortkidd
I have been able to prove to Agent that delay was not weather related by showing them the emails I receive. As long as delay/cancelation is not weather related you are entitled to have your hotel paid for.
does this apply to prepaid hotel when your flight cancels?
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Old Jan 14, 2014 | 11:14 am
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No. The issue at hand is whether UA will provide a voucher for a hotel room if you are stuck at DEN overnight due to a circumstance within UA's control. Under UA's own COC, if you are not originating at DEN, the delay is not within UA's control and you are stuck, you will get your voucher subject to availability.

As to your "prepaid" question, the answer is generally no. UA is not responsible for consequential damages. In other words, expenses you incur downstream. Prepaid hotels are one of them, the fact that you take a car service because the renatl car place is closed and so on.
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Old Jan 14, 2014 | 11:19 am
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Originally Posted by shortkidd
From the FAA. Just be aware if UA is trying to blame a delay on the weather.

The Ground Stop due to [ AIRLINE REQUEST DUE TO GATE ISSUES ASSOCIATED WITH DEICING. DO NOT CHARGE AS AN ATC DELAY!

ASQ GJS RPA SKW TCF INCLUDED! ] to airport [ DEN ]
At the time you posted Denver was 3/4 mile, with snow and runway RVR's being reported. No weather, really?
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Old Jan 14, 2014 | 11:55 am
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Originally Posted by clubord
At the time you posted Denver was 3/4 mile, with snow and runway RVR's being reported. No weather, really?
I can only provide you what the FAA reports. I have no idea how they determine what is/isn't weather related.

Anyone know? I would imagine it has something to do with visibility and the amount of flights at the time.
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Old Jan 14, 2014 | 11:56 am
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Originally Posted by shortkidd
I have been able to prove to Agent that delay was not weather related by showing them the emails I receive. As long as delay/cancelation is not weather related you are entitled to have your hotel paid for.
It's actually not quite that simple. The UA Contract of Carriage (Rule 24, Section F.1) provides for certain logging amenities when a delay is expected to exceed four hours between [or a cancelation occurs between] 10pm and 6am local time. Subject to number of conditions spelled out in the CoC.

Delays caused by Force Majure Events (events outside of UA's control) are excluded from this obligation.

From the UA CoC:
Code:
Force Majeure Event – any of the following situations:
a) Any condition beyond UA’s control including, but not limited to, meteorological or geological conditions, acts of God, riots, terrorist activities, civil commotions, embargoes, wars, hostilities, disturbances, or unsettled international conditions, either actual, anticipated, threatened or reported, or any delay, demand, circumstances, or requirement due directly or indirectly to such condition;
b) Any strike, work stoppage, slowdown, lockout, or any other labor-related dispute involving or affecting UA’s services;
c) Any governmental regulation, demand or requirement;
d) Any shortage of labor, fuel, or facilities of UA or others;
e) Damage to UA’s Aircraft or equipment caused by another party;
f) Any emergency situation requiring immediate care or protection for a person or property; or
g) Any event not reasonably foreseen, anticipated or predicted by UA.
In addition, to be eligible for amenities you have to take what UA offers and arranges for you. They do not have to reimburse you for arrangements you make on your own nor for other costs incurred due to the delay (including lost deposits at other hotels).

Deicing is clearly a meteorological condition and therefore a Force Majure Event.

Originally Posted by shortkidd
I can only provide you what the FAA reports. I have no idea how they determine what is/isn't weather related.

Anyone know? I would imagine it has something to do with visibility and the amount of flights at the time.
I am still confused by your posting. The text you originally posted seemed to just be making clear that the ground stop was requested by UA due to their deicing operations and noting to the reader that the delay is not ATC initiated. I assume delay would be noted as a weather delay by UA. You realize that the airline is responsible for determining and recording the reason for flight delays and not the FAA, right?

Last edited by kenn0223; Jan 14, 2014 at 12:04 pm
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Old Jan 15, 2014 | 1:07 pm
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You can claim de icing is not a weather delay ???????? How....do tell
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