Over the holidays, rented from Hertz in TUS, had a beautiful vacation but got flashed by a speed camera on River Road. The traffic enforcement company (Pima County appears to contract this out) got Hertz to reveal my identity (for which Hertz charges me $30 "administrative charge" - annoying but it was a cheap rental and that's not worth time to argue about).

If the ticket were a reasonable amount, I'd just pay it, but $236 for 11 mph over the limit is rather extreme. From what I read online (I know, worth what I pay for it) you can ignore the ticket unless you get properly served by a human being. Now I'm not advocating trying to play hide-and-seek with the process server, but I am wondering if they will try to serve me as I live out of state?

I'm not sure there is any good forum in which to ask this question, because those of you who live there don't have the "out of state" experience but this is such a varied and helpful community, I'll try anyway

Hertz gave you up because: 1) if they don't, they are responsible for the ticket; and 2) you agreed to that in the contract you signed when you picked up the car.

If you don't pay, Hertz is on the hook for it. That's fine except that you also agreed to make good on any such tickets and associated fees. Hertz will pay the $236 and tag you for a whole lot more in additional administrative fees. And, remember, you've authorized them to debit your CC, so the chances of beating this by ignoring are kinda nil.

And, ignore the malarkey about "serving" speeding tickets.

If you want to contest the ticket, that's fine, follow the process. If not, better to pay now when it's only the extra $30.

Thanks, but I don't think that is the case. A speeding ticket is against the driver, not the vehicle owner. The camera ticket goes to the vehicle owner. The vehicle owner can say "no it wasn't me driving" and reveal the driver's identity - that is how corporate owners are dealt with too.

I'm not trying to stick Hertz with the bill. A parking ticket, I would pay of course. I've already paid a $30 administrative fee to Hertz for them responding to the notice from Pima County. That I am clearly bound to by my contract with them.

I may be wrong, but that is what I think the deal is from what I have read.

Do you ever plan to come to Arizona again in your life?

Perhaps you can get away without paying the ticket if you'll never ever return to our state. But if by some chance you do, and you do something wrong...it can cause a major inconvenience.

You admit you drove over the speed limit. They start ticketing 11 mph over. There are signs on roads that indicate when photo radar is used. You evidently ignored them, and now you're trying to ignore the ticket.

I'd recommend you either pay up or follow the process to contest the ticket.

I sure hope I get to visit AZ again, it is a beautiful state.

I didn't "admit" I was speeding. I didn't see a sign about speed cameras. I had no idea there were speed cameras. I don't live there. The picture shows the car on my left passing me. Maybe it was speeding. I don't know. Living out of state makes it hard to contest

If a law enforcement officer wrote a ticket, it would be valid, done deal, and paid. My understanding of Arizona case law (and I am certainly not claiming to be a lawyer, so anyone else who reads this should verify for yourself please) is that an automated complaint needs to be served in order to be a valid ticket. The forms I got in the mail ask me to waive my rights of service. Ordinarily the officer writing the ticket by definition serves it.

If it is a valid ticket, I will pay it. If not, I will try not to. I do indeed sometimes exceed the speed limit, and I don't write myself a fine every time I do

I'm kind of missing the spot in this thread where the OP "admits" to driving over the speed limit. The OP states that s/he received a speeding ticket. Not the same as admitting guilt.

You can check the status of your Arizona photo radar ticket here: http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/publicaccess/

Although if your specific court isn't included then you'll have to go to the court's website.

If you ignore it long enough and no process server finds you then your ticket should eventually show up as being dismissed by the court. Btw, this is also a way to see if a dishonest process server claims to have served you.

To wrap this up, in case others are curious... I never responded to the initial letter saying I had speeded, giving me citation info, and a chance to waive my rights and pay. I did not check the web site that was to show me video. I did not go to court. I watched the court web site. I was never served in any way.

After 4 months, the court dismissed the case.

Hm, interesting :-:

Thanks for the update.

EmailKid

In conclusion, the traffic camera ticket companies in Arizona use a semi-official means of extorting money from the weak-willed, raking off a large profit from those who pay, and often get thrown out of the court if you bother to show up and contest the ticket in front of a judge. (See the "more than one car in the photo" issue in the posts above.)

The municipalities that started using these companies are generally not fully satisfied with their performance, as revenue goals weren't reached and speeding wasn't eliminated. Here in Scottsdale they tore out the stationary cameras on the Pima and Frank Lloyd Wright.

The courts don't like them either, as the legal process is truncated / violated because there is no human witness of a crime, the companies often foul up the paperwork, etc.

And of course the Arizona citizenry see them as just another officious boondoggle to scrape the pockets of the people of Arizona twice - once through fines and once through fees paid by tax dollars.

The company (ATS, American Traffic Solutions) makes out on both ends, what a scam. I thought I paid $30 to Hertz. In fact, it was to an arm of ATS, who acted as Hertz's agent (somehow getting my CC info from Hertz) - see this thread:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hertz...xperience.html

Since the op has reported back on the conclusion of this experience -- and since the thread is now trending toward political topics -- I will close this, given the good results (at least as far as the op is concerned) experienced.

If anyone wants to discuss the political implications or offer politicized characterizations of related issues, please feel free to start or find an extant thread in OMNI/PR

cblaisd
Moderator, USA/The West forum