Are VS currently paying out on agreed refunds ?
Sep 3, 2020, 3:17 pm
#226
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5,380
Honestly speaking, I do not think that VS will be satisfying all justified refund claims. Either the company goes belly up (the travel ban across the Atlantic will be in force until Mid-2021 at least), or passenger will forget about the refund claim.
If you search for Virgin Atlantic Refund on Twitter, there seems to be a post once every minute. It is terrible.
All the email with the 120 days figure were just designed to fool passengers.
If you search for Virgin Atlantic Refund on Twitter, there seems to be a post once every minute. It is terrible.
All the email with the 120 days figure were just designed to fool passengers.
Sep 3, 2020, 4:01 pm
#227
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: PVG, FRA, SEA, HEL
Programs: UA Premier Gold
Posts: 4,783
Do you trust a business that tells you: you get your money in 4 months?
It should have been clear from the beginning that this "120 day" fake promise was designed to calm down the passengers - nothing more.
VS must have known in March and April that they simply do not have the funds to refund all tickets.
At VS (and most other airlines) the ticket income is immediately spent on operational costs. Thus, VS has already used all that ticket money. With no new fresh incoming bookings coming in, it's clear there is no money to be paid out.
It should have been clear from the beginning that this "120 day" fake promise was designed to calm down the passengers - nothing more.
VS must have known in March and April that they simply do not have the funds to refund all tickets.
At VS (and most other airlines) the ticket income is immediately spent on operational costs. Thus, VS has already used all that ticket money. With no new fresh incoming bookings coming in, it's clear there is no money to be paid out.
Sep 3, 2020, 5:28 pm
#228
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,992
Do you trust a business that tells you: you get your money in 4 months?
It should have been clear from the beginning that this "120 day" fake promise was designed to calm down the passengers - nothing more.
VS must have known in March and April that they simply do not have the funds to refund all tickets.
At VS (and most other airlines) the ticket income is immediately spent on operational costs. Thus, VS has already used all that ticket money. With no new fresh incoming bookings coming in, it's clear there is no money to be paid out.
It should have been clear from the beginning that this "120 day" fake promise was designed to calm down the passengers - nothing more.
VS must have known in March and April that they simply do not have the funds to refund all tickets.
At VS (and most other airlines) the ticket income is immediately spent on operational costs. Thus, VS has already used all that ticket money. With no new fresh incoming bookings coming in, it's clear there is no money to be paid out.
LINK
I don't understand why they are saying they have had a slower then expected recovery...what were they thinking? Everyone would just jump back on the plane? And the investors....can't believe they have raised £1.2 billion
Flew LAX to LHR 2 weeks ago. 35 passengers on board!!!
Sep 4, 2020, 4:57 am
#229
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: PVG, FRA, SEA, HEL
Programs: UA Premier Gold
Posts: 4,783
VS is esp. hard hit by the pandemic. Unlike BA they have no shorthaul network, which generates fresh cash (esp. over the summer time). In addition those sale-leaseback deals to generate fresh cash are out of reach for VS, because they virtually own no planes.
Moreover, the Trump travel ban + the reciprocal EU/UK travel ban have virtually killed the main business model of VS - the transatlantic market.
This bailout of GBP 1.2bn is only meant to fund operational expenses over the next couple of months (e.g. leasing rates for the planes). The bailout is not designed to fund refund claims.
Moreover, only a small portion of the bailout package is actually fresh hard cash.
Refunds can only be issued once VS receives fresh cash from new bookings. But who in his right mind will book transatlantic tickets in the couple of months? And again, even if Biden wins, I don't think that he will lift the travel ban on January 20, 2021.
One must assume that VS management may have hoped last March/April that bookings will pick up over the summer 2020 timeframe. This is how the 120-day payment figure has been derived from. But that hope was futile, unfortunately.
I wouldn't be surprised if some involved parties of the bailout package (esp. the acquirer banks) will get out of this deal.
Moreover, the Trump travel ban + the reciprocal EU/UK travel ban have virtually killed the main business model of VS - the transatlantic market.
This bailout of GBP 1.2bn is only meant to fund operational expenses over the next couple of months (e.g. leasing rates for the planes). The bailout is not designed to fund refund claims.
Moreover, only a small portion of the bailout package is actually fresh hard cash.
Refunds can only be issued once VS receives fresh cash from new bookings. But who in his right mind will book transatlantic tickets in the couple of months? And again, even if Biden wins, I don't think that he will lift the travel ban on January 20, 2021.
One must assume that VS management may have hoped last March/April that bookings will pick up over the summer 2020 timeframe. This is how the 120-day payment figure has been derived from. But that hope was futile, unfortunately.
I wouldn't be surprised if some involved parties of the bailout package (esp. the acquirer banks) will get out of this deal.
Sep 4, 2020, 11:46 am
#230
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,710
For what it is worth I canceled an award booking with VS this week. It was a speculative booking that I made post COVID outbreak. It took the better part of 90 mins to speak to somebody but they processed the request efficiently. I got an email on my refund request in a few hours that stated in part:
So it seems they are now promising 80 days vs 120 as before. In this case the money is so trivial I am just going to let it ride.
It is important to us that we provide clear expectations on the time it will take for you to receive your refund. We are committed to processing each refund at the earliest opportunity, but in some cases this may take up to a maximum of 80 days in total, from the date of this request (01 Sep 2020). In the case that this is a repeat request, we will look for the earliest date against Booking Reference Number EOXN97 rather than the date of this email. Please note, if your original refund request was made before August, it may take up to a maximum of 120 days to process.
Sep 7, 2020, 5:12 pm
#231
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Pittsburgh
Programs: Whoever Has the Best Bonus
Posts: 5,183
If they promised 120 days before, note my claim from 130 days ago (April 30) has not been processed (never got any email or activity to indicate anything since Apr 30) . Again, could be because the chargeback finished before they could get to it.
Sep 8, 2020, 11:31 am
#232
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NYC
Posts: 335
I followed up on Sept. 4 regarding a refund for a trip from May. VS responded surprisingly quickly (7 hours). Here's what they said (emphasis mine):
Hello [Petdog],
Thank you for getting in touch.
We know the difficulties Covid-19 is posing to everyone, and when it comes to your refund, we don’t underestimate the importance of returning your money to you. We want to reassure you that working through customer refund requests is a priority and they will all be repaid in full at the earliest opportunity, and we are aiming for a maximum timeframe of 120 days.
I have checked and can confirm a full refund has been requested for you under the reference: [XXXXXXXXXX]. The request date for your booking reference: [XXXXXX] is currently set at 22nd May 2020 (106 days old) and due to be processed by the 19th September 2020
Managing this huge volume of requests, alongside operational constraints on our teams and systems, has been challenging but we are fully committed to paying every single refund in full.
We will make every effort to pay your refund sooner than this if we can and have boosted the size of the team handling refunds. They are receiving training on the systems to complete this complex process, which will increase capacity to process refunds.
If you have any other questions in the future, please don’t hesitate to contact us.
Kind Regards
[John Smith]
Virgin Atlantic Customer Centre
Hello [Petdog],
Thank you for getting in touch.
We know the difficulties Covid-19 is posing to everyone, and when it comes to your refund, we don’t underestimate the importance of returning your money to you. We want to reassure you that working through customer refund requests is a priority and they will all be repaid in full at the earliest opportunity, and we are aiming for a maximum timeframe of 120 days.
I have checked and can confirm a full refund has been requested for you under the reference: [XXXXXXXXXX]. The request date for your booking reference: [XXXXXX] is currently set at 22nd May 2020 (106 days old) and due to be processed by the 19th September 2020
Managing this huge volume of requests, alongside operational constraints on our teams and systems, has been challenging but we are fully committed to paying every single refund in full.
We will make every effort to pay your refund sooner than this if we can and have boosted the size of the team handling refunds. They are receiving training on the systems to complete this complex process, which will increase capacity to process refunds.
If you have any other questions in the future, please don’t hesitate to contact us.
Kind Regards
[John Smith]
Virgin Atlantic Customer Centre
Sep 9, 2020, 3:13 am
#235
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Manchester, England
Programs: Bonvoy LT Plat, HH Diamond, IHG Plat, BMI Gold (RIP)
Posts: 8,021
It's not a promise, but it is enough to satisfy AMEX when it comes to a chargeback. DIdn't need to do that on VS as my refund was earlier this year, but on Easyjet they gave me a similar approximate timeline estimate and after it passed, I did a chargeback. AMEX accepted it and confirmed it after Easyjet tried to suggest it was an estimated time in their response to them. AMEX considered it a confirmed statement of timing.
I would hope that other card issuers would see it similarly, once a patient customer has waited for longer than the stated time.
I would hope that other card issuers would see it similarly, once a patient customer has waited for longer than the stated time.
Sep 10, 2020, 8:24 am
#236
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NYC
Posts: 335
Signs of progress. This morning I received the following note, along with a detailed refund calculation.
Dear Customer,
Please find confirmation attached that your refund has been processed, and payment should be made within the coming days. We know you’ve been waiting longer than you expected to receive this, and we sincerely apologise that your refund was not returned to you sooner.
With the significant cancellations to our flying programme, we continue to be inundated with an ever growing and unprecedented volume of refund requests. Managing the huge volume we’ve received remains challenging, and we know we’ve been unable to provide the clarity you needed on timelines. This fell short of the highest standards we hold ourselves to, and we want to reassure you that working through these has remained a priority for us.
Everything is in hand so you don’t need to do anything. The refund will be returned to the original forms of payment, even if you used a number of different ways to pay. Please do bear in mind that, depending on the payment method, it could take anywhere between 1 and 14 working days for the money to show in your account.
We are so grateful for all of your patience, and we hope to welcome you onboard when you choose to travel again.
Kind Regards,
Refunds Department
Dear Customer,
Please find confirmation attached that your refund has been processed, and payment should be made within the coming days. We know you’ve been waiting longer than you expected to receive this, and we sincerely apologise that your refund was not returned to you sooner.
With the significant cancellations to our flying programme, we continue to be inundated with an ever growing and unprecedented volume of refund requests. Managing the huge volume we’ve received remains challenging, and we know we’ve been unable to provide the clarity you needed on timelines. This fell short of the highest standards we hold ourselves to, and we want to reassure you that working through these has remained a priority for us.
Everything is in hand so you don’t need to do anything. The refund will be returned to the original forms of payment, even if you used a number of different ways to pay. Please do bear in mind that, depending on the payment method, it could take anywhere between 1 and 14 working days for the money to show in your account.
We are so grateful for all of your patience, and we hope to welcome you onboard when you choose to travel again.
Kind Regards,
Refunds Department
Last edited by Petdog; Sep 10, 2020 at 8:26 am Reason: formatting
Sep 11, 2020, 8:56 pm
#237
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PlatMM, BA and Alaska Emerald, HHonors DIA, Accor, Marriott Titanium, IHG Plat Amb, UA Silver, AA
Posts: 4,516
That's some good news.
I did initiate a chargeback with AMEX, and it's in progress since August 10th, but it's complicated by the fact that I used the outbound (BOM-USA) and then VS cancelled the return.
The ticket was US$2570 in Business class, a great fare. But since taxes are variable, I've asked for exactly half of the amount to be refunded via AMEX, knowing for sure that it might be a few dollars off either way.
I asked for the refund on May 25th, have heard zero from VS since then. Called once in late July to be told they were hoping for 90 days (now 110). So I am trying thru AMEX.
I'll reply if I hear anything.
I did initiate a chargeback with AMEX, and it's in progress since August 10th, but it's complicated by the fact that I used the outbound (BOM-USA) and then VS cancelled the return.
The ticket was US$2570 in Business class, a great fare. But since taxes are variable, I've asked for exactly half of the amount to be refunded via AMEX, knowing for sure that it might be a few dollars off either way.
I asked for the refund on May 25th, have heard zero from VS since then. Called once in late July to be told they were hoping for 90 days (now 110). So I am trying thru AMEX.
I'll reply if I hear anything.
Sep 14, 2020, 7:56 am
#238
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 8
Incorrect cash refund?
I just received my refund...but there is an issue.
I had an award flight with VS for ANA this summer which I canceled and rebooked for 2021. Like everyone else, I paid for the taxes on the new booking and was told that I would receive the refund from the first booking later on. The refund hit my credit card about 120 days afterward and I received the email confirmation, but the refund amount isn't for the taxes. It's for what appears to be the entire airfare of the flights, which is more than 5 times the amount of the taxes. My flight for 2021 is still showing up as expected. Has anyone else experienced this? I'm planning on calling VS once I have some time this week.
I had an award flight with VS for ANA this summer which I canceled and rebooked for 2021. Like everyone else, I paid for the taxes on the new booking and was told that I would receive the refund from the first booking later on. The refund hit my credit card about 120 days afterward and I received the email confirmation, but the refund amount isn't for the taxes. It's for what appears to be the entire airfare of the flights, which is more than 5 times the amount of the taxes. My flight for 2021 is still showing up as expected. Has anyone else experienced this? I'm planning on calling VS once I have some time this week.
Sep 14, 2020, 8:02 am
#239
Join Date: Apr 2004
Programs: BA Exec Blue, IHG Spire, HHonor Gold, Accor Platinum.
Posts: 966
I just received my refund...but there is an issue.
I had an award flight with VS for ANA this summer which I canceled and rebooked for 2021. Like everyone else, I paid for the taxes on the new booking and was told that I would receive the refund from the first booking later on. The refund hit my credit card about 120 days afterward and I received the email confirmation, but the refund amount isn't for the taxes. It's for what appears to be the entire airfare of the flights, which is more than 5 times the amount of the taxes. My flight for 2021 is still showing up as expected. Has anyone else experienced this? I'm planning on calling VS once I have some time this week.
I had an award flight with VS for ANA this summer which I canceled and rebooked for 2021. Like everyone else, I paid for the taxes on the new booking and was told that I would receive the refund from the first booking later on. The refund hit my credit card about 120 days afterward and I received the email confirmation, but the refund amount isn't for the taxes. It's for what appears to be the entire airfare of the flights, which is more than 5 times the amount of the taxes. My flight for 2021 is still showing up as expected. Has anyone else experienced this? I'm planning on calling VS once I have some time this week.
Yes
My refund invoice for a reward flight showed the supposedly cash price of the flight -£4K each !
However I only received the taxes I was due (£100)
It took 130 days to get that money back.