Virgin leaves me stranded
Apr 21, 2018, 2:07 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 19
Virgin leaves me stranded
Hi
Need some advice
i booked my family vacation
johannesburg-paris
paris-milan
milan-london
london- johannesburg
virgin codeshare with air france on
johannesburg france and
France milan
before leaving johanesburg i called
virgin to book my chauffeur drives and enquired
on procedure if any of the flights would be effected
by the strike
i was advised that i would be rerouted via london to france
feeling comfortable i left
my flight from paris to milan was effected and was
notified on the morning that flight was cancelled
i called virgin and contacted them on facebook and advised them that i was willing to loose the paris milan leg and i would find alternative
way to get to milan
(needed to be in milan for a trade show)
virgin response was that if i missed the new rescheduled flight all my other legs would be cancelled
and there was nothing more they could do.
they advised that its a air france issue and there was nothing they could do
air france rescheduled the flight the next day
2 adults on 1 flight and 4 kids on another flight
accepting that i had no alternative
had to rebook a rooms in paris
lost my non refundable accommodation in milan
and if i found alternative way to milan i would loose my
flight from london to johannesburg
My next issue
i literally begged virgin to assist in getting the whole family on 1 flight as the virgin booking reference number was not showing on air france system
virgin in writing told me that there was nothing they could do
Went to the airport and managed to get us all on one flight with air france staff 12 hours later
sent a email to virgin ceo expressing what happened
and the non interest in there staff to assist in letting me
Cancel one leg so while the remainder of the booking
remained in place and zero assistance in contacting air france to give me the air france reference numbers for my flights
the reaponse was that i should claim from air france
And its a air france issue
my issue is that i booked the flight with virgin
paid virgin, they could have assisted in
getting me out of france or at the least allowing the leg
to go without cancelling the remainder of my bookings
what are my rights against virgin
Need some advice
i booked my family vacation
johannesburg-paris
paris-milan
milan-london
london- johannesburg
virgin codeshare with air france on
johannesburg france and
France milan
before leaving johanesburg i called
virgin to book my chauffeur drives and enquired
on procedure if any of the flights would be effected
by the strike
i was advised that i would be rerouted via london to france
feeling comfortable i left
my flight from paris to milan was effected and was
notified on the morning that flight was cancelled
i called virgin and contacted them on facebook and advised them that i was willing to loose the paris milan leg and i would find alternative
way to get to milan
(needed to be in milan for a trade show)
virgin response was that if i missed the new rescheduled flight all my other legs would be cancelled
and there was nothing more they could do.
they advised that its a air france issue and there was nothing they could do
air france rescheduled the flight the next day
2 adults on 1 flight and 4 kids on another flight
accepting that i had no alternative
had to rebook a rooms in paris
lost my non refundable accommodation in milan
and if i found alternative way to milan i would loose my
flight from london to johannesburg
My next issue
i literally begged virgin to assist in getting the whole family on 1 flight as the virgin booking reference number was not showing on air france system
virgin in writing told me that there was nothing they could do
Went to the airport and managed to get us all on one flight with air france staff 12 hours later
sent a email to virgin ceo expressing what happened
and the non interest in there staff to assist in letting me
Cancel one leg so while the remainder of the booking
remained in place and zero assistance in contacting air france to give me the air france reference numbers for my flights
the reaponse was that i should claim from air france
And its a air france issue
my issue is that i booked the flight with virgin
paid virgin, they could have assisted in
getting me out of france or at the least allowing the leg
to go without cancelling the remainder of my bookings
what are my rights against virgin
Apr 21, 2018, 9:37 am
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brighton. UK
Programs: BA Gold / VS /IHG Diamond & Ambassador
Posts: 14,204
You have already been told (I dont know where that thread has gone) that this is NOT a VS issue but one for AF
but to answer your last question you have NO rights against a claim to VS.
but to answer your last question you have NO rights against a claim to VS.
Apr 21, 2018, 10:07 am
#3
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Location: DCA
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Posts: 50,262
VS gave you the correct answer. Many times. Your thread title is misleading and you should have it corrected or perhaps a MOD will. You were not stranded.
As AF cancelled the flight and it was solely AF's responsibility to handle the reroute. AF had a duty of care to you under EC 261/2004 and thus should have provided you with a hotel and food vouchers. If it refused your request, you may submit your reasonable receipts to AF for reimbursement under the Regulation. Your prepaid hotel is a matter to be handled with your travel insurance.
As to your proposal to simply cancel your MILAN-PARIS segment and then continue the rest of your itinerary, I suspect that AF would gladly have acommodated this request and cancelled the segment while preserving the onward segments to LON and JNB.
While it is untrue that VS was unable to assist, it was not VS's responsibility to do so and there is no reason for VS to have interfered in this AF matter. VS also properly advised you that if you simply no showed for your MILAN-PARIS segment that all remaining segments would be cancelled (and your ticket would retain whatever value it retains under the fare rules).
When you finally asked AF at the airport, AF did what you asked and located seats. Had you called immediately upon notification of the cancellation, you might have had all of this handled on the spot.
As AF cancelled the flight and it was solely AF's responsibility to handle the reroute. AF had a duty of care to you under EC 261/2004 and thus should have provided you with a hotel and food vouchers. If it refused your request, you may submit your reasonable receipts to AF for reimbursement under the Regulation. Your prepaid hotel is a matter to be handled with your travel insurance.
As to your proposal to simply cancel your MILAN-PARIS segment and then continue the rest of your itinerary, I suspect that AF would gladly have acommodated this request and cancelled the segment while preserving the onward segments to LON and JNB.
While it is untrue that VS was unable to assist, it was not VS's responsibility to do so and there is no reason for VS to have interfered in this AF matter. VS also properly advised you that if you simply no showed for your MILAN-PARIS segment that all remaining segments would be cancelled (and your ticket would retain whatever value it retains under the fare rules).
When you finally asked AF at the airport, AF did what you asked and located seats. Had you called immediately upon notification of the cancellation, you might have had all of this handled on the spot.
Apr 21, 2018, 10:28 am
#4
Moderator, Virgin Atlantic
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: www.V-Flyer.com
Programs: VS Red, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium - earned out of our own pocket!.
Posts: 2,394
OP’S other thread was deleted after complaints it was cross posted in another forum contrary to FlyerTalk T&C
I will give OP the chance to respond to Often1’s reply before changing thread title
Nick
I will give OP the chance to respond to Often1’s reply before changing thread title
Nick
Apr 21, 2018, 2:26 pm
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 19
Virgin still leaves me stranded
Hi everyone
thanks for all the comments
i should have been more clear
as soon as i became aware i contacted air france
but also felt comfortable that virgiin staff member reassured me that they assist before i left johannesburg, the reference number on my virgin booking did not show up on the air france system and air france requested that i contact my ticket issuerer
which was virgin, at that time i required virgin to either allow me to use a train from paris to milan or get hold of someone at air france to provide air france booking reference, on both theae request they advised that i was on my own, does that not allow me to say that the company that i purchased my tickets left me stranded
Apr 22, 2018, 6:38 am
#6
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It's hard to follow the OP's account. As often happens, way too much detail is provided.
But why were all of those flights booked on the same ticket / PNR? Is Virgin Atlantic selling a fare from Jo-burg to Milan with a free stopover in Paris (all on AF presumably) and/or London? Otherwise the sensible thing would be to book a JNB-CDG//LHR-JNB ticket and just book the European flights separately. I'd say that 75-85% of my tickets are booked as one-ways, for the precise reason that IRROPs or missed flights don't then have wider implications. I also avoid codeshares and OTAs wherever possible to avoid third parties between me and the airline transporting me.
But once in Paris, you are the responsibility of AF and they must get you to Milan. If you no longer wish to fly to Milan, then it should be AF who deal with changing your e-ticket to reflect this. The fact that you are unaware of your AF PNR is simply poor advance planning.
But why were all of those flights booked on the same ticket / PNR? Is Virgin Atlantic selling a fare from Jo-burg to Milan with a free stopover in Paris (all on AF presumably) and/or London? Otherwise the sensible thing would be to book a JNB-CDG//LHR-JNB ticket and just book the European flights separately. I'd say that 75-85% of my tickets are booked as one-ways, for the precise reason that IRROPs or missed flights don't then have wider implications. I also avoid codeshares and OTAs wherever possible to avoid third parties between me and the airline transporting me.
But once in Paris, you are the responsibility of AF and they must get you to Milan. If you no longer wish to fly to Milan, then it should be AF who deal with changing your e-ticket to reflect this. The fact that you are unaware of your AF PNR is simply poor advance planning.
Apr 22, 2018, 6:49 am
#7
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Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Hi everyone
thanks for all the comments
i should have been more clear
as soon as i became aware i contacted air france
but also felt comfortable that virgiin staff member reassured me that they assist before i left johannesburg, the reference number on my virgin booking did not show up on the air france system and air france requested that i contact my ticket issuerer
which was virgin, at that time i required virgin to either allow me to use a train from paris to milan or get hold of someone at air france to provide air france booking reference, on both theae request they advised that i was on my own, does that not allow me to say that the company that i purchased my tickets left me stranded
As you found, once you got the proper information to AF, you were accommodated.
Apr 22, 2018, 6:48 pm
#8
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Location: Brighton. UK
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There is still something not adding up here.
if AF couldn’t trace the booking then how come the OP was allowed to fly to Paris in the first place? As they did that meant AF had the booking ref (even if the OP didn’t).
though that still doesn't get away from the fact that the strike is nothing to do with VS and AF are / were responsible for rebooking the intra Europe trips and protecting the VS flight back from London to JNB
OP it would be helpful if you gave the actual flight numbers on your booking as well as the first first 3 digits on the ticket reference (not the 6;character booking ref / confirmation code)
if AF couldn’t trace the booking then how come the OP was allowed to fly to Paris in the first place? As they did that meant AF had the booking ref (even if the OP didn’t).
though that still doesn't get away from the fact that the strike is nothing to do with VS and AF are / were responsible for rebooking the intra Europe trips and protecting the VS flight back from London to JNB
OP it would be helpful if you gave the actual flight numbers on your booking as well as the first first 3 digits on the ticket reference (not the 6;character booking ref / confirmation code)
Apr 23, 2018, 1:18 am
#9
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If I showed up to the airport and tried to check in for a specific flight, I would rather hope that the check-in agent could find my booking, codeshare or not.
Apr 23, 2018, 8:34 am
#10
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It should also have been possible for the OP to rebook themselves online, though for this they would have needed the AF PNR, which Virgin should supply if asked (it is also possible that this AF PNR was visible somewhere on the confirmation/eticket etc).
See: https://www.airfrance.nl/NL/en/commo...air-france.htm
Last edited by irishguy28; Apr 23, 2018 at 8:40 am
Apr 23, 2018, 8:52 am
#11
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OP contacted AF via Facebook without providing any information which distinguished him from any honest or dishonest third-party.
If a passenger has a valid ticket, reservation or both, AF is easily able to find that information when provided other bits of information. Facebook is not the way to locate that information when one supplies little. Misunderstandings occur, particularly in a world where some are less fluent than they think they are and the nuances are missed.
There now exists a technology called a "telephone". Useful when all else fails and great for disabusing either or both parties because one may say, "would you please repeat that" or "that is not what I meant".
If a passenger has a valid ticket, reservation or both, AF is easily able to find that information when provided other bits of information. Facebook is not the way to locate that information when one supplies little. Misunderstandings occur, particularly in a world where some are less fluent than they think they are and the nuances are missed.
There now exists a technology called a "telephone". Useful when all else fails and great for disabusing either or both parties because one may say, "would you please repeat that" or "that is not what I meant".
Apr 23, 2018, 9:12 am
#12
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I've lost track of the number of times that an airline website says "rebook yourself online" during major IRROPS only to attempt to do so and receive a version of "you cannot manage your booking online, please call". The chances of it working properly with a multi-leg, multi-airline itinerary are between slim and none.
Apr 27, 2018, 6:12 pm
#13
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 19
Hi Again
for anyone that is ever in my situation
virgin reference number that is given on there booking which the passengers receive is different to
the one air france uses
as said above
calling air france and quoting the only reference number you have is not going to get you anywhere
as the number that they use they requesting that you get it from virgin
i was lucky that a helpful person managing there facebook took the time to assist and most likely checked my facebook name and tickets was the same
as far as calling i tried air france over 20 times but not having the correct ref number got me no where
my flight later today my kids right at the back of the plane and my request for them to be just behind upper class was not accepted because plane is full
i have only been using middle east carriers and wanted to do a comparison on other airlines
thats why the air france going and Virgin coming back
on any flight booked with emirates, etihad or qatar my kids were always just behind business
honestly i will try my utmost to stick to the middle east carriers and brace the stopovers
hopefully all goes well and i can put this behind me
(the value loss is insignificant compared to the stress i went through)
all i needed at that time was for the virgin “customer care” person to reassure me that they would assist by calling air france getting me and kids on 1 flight
i seriously hope that no one goes through this flying virgin
they just dont care
thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions
for anyone that is ever in my situation
virgin reference number that is given on there booking which the passengers receive is different to
the one air france uses
as said above
calling air france and quoting the only reference number you have is not going to get you anywhere
as the number that they use they requesting that you get it from virgin
i was lucky that a helpful person managing there facebook took the time to assist and most likely checked my facebook name and tickets was the same
as far as calling i tried air france over 20 times but not having the correct ref number got me no where
my flight later today my kids right at the back of the plane and my request for them to be just behind upper class was not accepted because plane is full
i have only been using middle east carriers and wanted to do a comparison on other airlines
thats why the air france going and Virgin coming back
on any flight booked with emirates, etihad or qatar my kids were always just behind business
honestly i will try my utmost to stick to the middle east carriers and brace the stopovers
hopefully all goes well and i can put this behind me
(the value loss is insignificant compared to the stress i went through)
all i needed at that time was for the virgin “customer care” person to reassure me that they would assist by calling air france getting me and kids on 1 flight
i seriously hope that no one goes through this flying virgin
they just dont care
thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions
Apr 27, 2018, 6:16 pm
#14
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 19
Hi Again
for anyone that is ever in my situation
virgin reference number that is given on there booking which the passengers receive is different to
the one air france uses
as said above
calling air france and quoting the only reference number you have is not going to get you anywhere
as the number that they use they requesting that you get it from virgin
i was lucky that a helpful person managing there facebook took the time to assist and most likely checked my facebook name and tickets was the same
as far as calling i tried air france over 20 times but not having the correct ref number got me no where
my flight later today my kids right at the back of the plane and my request for them to be just behind upper class was not accepted because plane is full
i have only been using middle east carriers and wanted to do a comparison on other airlines
thats why the air france going and Virgin coming back
on any flight booked with emirates, etihad or qatar my kids were always just behind business
honestly i will try my utmost to stick to the middle east carriers and brace the stopovers
hopefully all goes well and i can put this behind me
(the value loss is insignificant compared to the stress i went through)
all i needed at that time was for the virgin “customer care” person to reassure me that they would assist by calling air france getting me and kids on 1 flight
i seriously hope that no one goes through this flying virgin
they just dont care
thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions
for anyone that is ever in my situation
virgin reference number that is given on there booking which the passengers receive is different to
the one air france uses
as said above
calling air france and quoting the only reference number you have is not going to get you anywhere
as the number that they use they requesting that you get it from virgin
i was lucky that a helpful person managing there facebook took the time to assist and most likely checked my facebook name and tickets was the same
as far as calling i tried air france over 20 times but not having the correct ref number got me no where
my flight later today my kids right at the back of the plane and my request for them to be just behind upper class was not accepted because plane is full
i have only been using middle east carriers and wanted to do a comparison on other airlines
thats why the air france going and Virgin coming back
on any flight booked with emirates, etihad or qatar my kids were always just behind business
honestly i will try my utmost to stick to the middle east carriers and brace the stopovers
hopefully all goes well and i can put this behind me
(the value loss is insignificant compared to the stress i went through)
all i needed at that time was for the virgin “customer care” person to reassure me that they would assist by calling air france getting me and kids on 1 flight
i seriously hope that no one goes through this flying virgin
they just dont care
thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions
May 12, 2018, 2:20 pm
#15
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 234
Virgin as the ticketing agent could and should have assisted the passenger. Air France would only be ale to touch the booking once it goes under airport control, which is precisely when AF staff were able to help.
P.s good luck getting a train to Italy during the strikes as nearly all cross border trains have been cancelled. Transport in France is a mess at the moment (until the end of June) and best avoided!
P.s good luck getting a train to Italy during the strikes as nearly all cross border trains have been cancelled. Transport in France is a mess at the moment (until the end of June) and best avoided!