According to Crankyflier's latest, eleVAte redemption comes in October. Finally.

Did they mention what year?

So it sounds like it will be a program devoted to redemption on VX only, at least at first. To me the program is useless until I know what international premium redemption opportunities there will be.

Do you care about intergalactic premium redemption too? (or at least extra-atmospheric) ;-)

No.

Well, one would think VS and VA/DJ would be prime targets, with SQ also being in the running through them owning 49% of VS and having some nice linkup points in America (JFK/LAX/SFO).

But look, this program's NEVER going to be the end-all, be-all of FF programs- the points are based on spend, not miles, so mileage runs are useless (cheap fares just mean less points), and I doubt VX is going to ever give F away for status, though I bet they'll let you burn points for it, and the points expire, anyway- so you might as well BUY the damn F ticket on SQ for all the VX flying you're going to have to do to get it from eleVAte.

As has been described here before, this sounds like it's going to be WN Rapid Rewards with mood lighting.

On the upside, at least F should remain (somewhat) affordable as it will not be full of upgraded pax. And the gate should remain lice free.

If VX only allows points redemption (and no elite privileges), I still believe the experience is greater value than paying more for poorer quality and hording away points that have low redemption value and are difficult to use (eg. paying 50-100% more for a 'points' upgradeable int'l ticket - when there is very little availability).

I have to agree. Suffering through crappy airline experiences so you can occasionally have caviar on a TATL flight is a wacky way to run an airline, or experience air travel.

It's not about the caviar; it's about the vacation. Every year, my partner and I take at least 2 vacations in Europe using free LH C tickets. It makes for a great vacation. I can suffer through E+ on UA for that. If VX could offer similar awards, then it might be worth switching.

Right, but think about it: in order to be able to "pay" for you taking an LH C trip to Europe, UA gives crappy experiences in E+ and E- for everyone who's paying for it.

Why isn't the correct attitude "let's improve coach and F for our paying customers, at the expense of the folks who hang out on FT trying to figure out mileage runs so they can get their premium class TATL tickets"? I sort of think it is (which probably doesn't make me all that popular here)- the best way to make your customers loyal (and aren't FF programs supposed to be "loyalty" programs?) isn't to give them an occasional chance to fly with someone else who does the job better than you do; it's to do the job better so they want to fly with you.

Although you are right that UA should improve their service (along with the rest of the legacies), at the end of the day real FFers like me (who don't do MRs) who fly a lot value the award structure of the legacies more than somewhat better service with less leg room. Some will disagree, but international travel in premium cabins is a huge driver of FF decisions.

VX's product is strong but not strong enough to convince me to abandon the ability to take one or two overseas trips a year in C or F. UA's E+ blows VX out of the water in terms of seat comfort, DL has an entertainment system that is equivalent to that offered by VX, and CO has a very strong and well priced F product. I despise UA, DL has spotty service and CO is nearly impossible to buy, but flying VX really feels like throwing miles away given the lack of any premium redemption opportunities.

Seems like VX has been saying all along that it expects to partner with VS, so I can't imagine why you wouldn't be able to take one or two overseas trips a year in C or F.

When VX's entertainment system is working, it will be much better than DL's.

CO's domestic F product cannot even hold a candle to VX's. I mean, it's not even close! Keep in mind that I am platinum on CO, and have lots of experience with both.

This is the point of this thread. Until the award structure is known, few are going to gamble on VX producing a useful award system. If they announce VS awards in C (no F on VS) at reasonable point levels, that would be a potential game changer. But the fact that nothing has been announced makes one skeptical.

Exactly. VX is fine for the one off SFO-LAS or SFO-SAN, but until that VS partnership actually materializes (with redemption levels competitive against the rest of the industry), my transcon F dollars will go to DL and CO.