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-   USA (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/usa-738/)
-   -   US Passport renewal / extra pages Q&A thread (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/usa/861042-us-passport-renewal-extra-pages-q-thread.html)

soitgoes Oct 11, 2008 9:22 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by secretsea18 (Post 10506649)
And weirdly, the picture page is not on the inside front cover, but on the left side of the next page.

How can you tell if you got the "chip" kind of passport? The cover of this new passport is soooo stiff compared with the mushy old one...

Those two things tell you you got the 'chipped' passport. You should also see the E-Passport logo on the cover.

hfly Oct 11, 2008 9:24 pm

Eastern Traveller, I would expect that there may have been another reason. The US has reciprocal arrangements with many countries which one may:

"enter with passports valid for period of intended stay."

These include:

- Algeria, Andorra, Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Armenia,
Australia, Austria, Bahamas, Bangladesh, Barbados,
Belgium, Bolivia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Botswana, Brazil,
Brunei, Bulgaria, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica,
Cote d'Ivoire, Croatia, Cuba, Cyprus, Czech Rep., Denmark,
Dominica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador,
Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Fiji, Finland, France, FYROM
(Former Yugoslav Rep. of Macedonia), Georgia, Germany,
Greece, Grenada, Guatemala, Guinea (Rep.), Guyana,
Hungary, Iceland, India, Ireland (Rep. of), Israel, Italy,
Jamaica, Japan, Korea (Rep.), Kuwait, Laos, Latvia,
Lebanon, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Madagascar
Dem. Rep., Malaysia, Malta, Marshall Isl., Mauritius,
Mexico, Monaco, Montenegro (Rep. of), Netherlands, New
Zealand, Nicaragua, Nigeria, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Palau
Isl., Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland,
Portugal, Qatar, Senegal, Serbia (Rep. of), Singapore,
Slovak Rep., Slovenia, South Africa, Spain, Sri Lanka, St.
Kitts-Nevis, St. Lucia, St. Vincent and the Grenadines,
Suriname, Sweden, Switzerland, Syria, Tanzania, Thailand,
Togo, Trinidad & Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey, Tuvalu, United
Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, Uruguay, Uzbekistan,
Vatican City, Venezuela and Zimbabwe

You may notice that Malaysia is on the list. The six month thing is a standard boiler plate requirement that is put down by most countries, much like the requirement that one must have an onward ticket. I have never, in my several thousand border crossings or arrivals into any country been asked whether I have has a return or connecting ticket, and while it has been pointed out to me a few times when my passport was close to expiring, no one has ever denied or implied that they would deny me entry.

Again, the six month thing is boilerplate and may keep untold Indonesiana, or Gyatemalans out of Malaysia, but does NOT apply to US passport holders according to treaty with Malaysia.

Regarding the pages thing. It depends on your travel and reasoning. Last time I had pages added I probably had 8 pages left, but was going to chew through them in 2 weeks time, not a question was asked, however my passport was already extremely thick. I would think that someone with no added pages asking for an extension with 8 pages left might get a question or two.

yosithezet Oct 12, 2008 4:48 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by hfly (Post 10505877)
You most positively will have NO SUCH HASSLE WHATSOEVER, I have entered Malaysia with less than 2 weeks left on my passport and they could not care less.

Well, TG would not let me board the BKK-KUL flight since it expires in Feb 09. Contacted the embassy and they are closed today (expected) and tomorrow for Columbus Day:o (Wasn't Columbus an Italian? :) ) The duty officer took my details and I'll head to the American Services Center on Tuesday with the hopes I can get a new passport in a few hours so I can at least make my Wed AM meeting in KL. (My passport has TWA security stickers on it so I'm going to be sad to part with it.)

hfly Oct 12, 2008 5:22 am

Firstly, a piece of advice to anyone that is denied boardingby an arline in a similar situation when you are sure they are wrong. Ask for a supervisor and explain your case. If that then fails, take out a piece of paper and write "I will take full responsibility to cover my return flight and any possible fine if I am refused entry into XXX" Then sign it. Most supervisors will then let you board (just be sure that you are right beforehand, otherwise you will foot the bill).

A note on this, as I stated before, there are certain boilerplate provisions that always show up. About once every two years I will get an absolute idiot checkin agent when flying to Turkey (generally when cheking in from some US outstation, Gatwick or certain Asian destinations) that will take five minutes to read the timeatic display over and over again. They will then ask to see my visa. When it is explained that Visas are on arrival (which is clearly written on their screen) they will then occasionally ask to see a return or continuing ticket. Explaining to them that this provision means absolutely nothing means nothing to them, they have probably checked in few passengers from Turkey, are lowly paid and are afraid for their jobs. The above trick strategy ALWAYS works (that and the 800 or so entry and exit stamps in my current passport).

In any case I would STRONGLY suggest that you return to TG, or to a travel agent right now and have then do a little search on TIMEATIC, not for the boilerplate entry requirements (which I do believe list six months regarding Malaysia for every single nationality on Earth) but the page which references what I posted above, which specifically deals with US treaty terms. I would give you the link if I had it, but I myself lifted it from an earlier FT post. Take aforesaid printout with you to the airport and then give them hell and get on the flight.

One question though, Is there anything about your US passport that makes you seem Israeli? Born there? residence stamp? Lots of stamps? This could explain why TG is being ultra sensitive with you as the Malaysians untypically are one of the biggest stcklers about these things.

yosithezet Oct 12, 2008 5:43 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by hfly (Post 10507429)
One question though, Is there anything about your US passport that makes you seem Israeli? Born there? residence stamp? Lots of stamps? This could explain why TG is being ultra sensitive with you as the Malaysians untypically are one of the biggest stcklers about these things.

The passport was issued at the US Embassy in Tel Aviv but per the Malaysian embassy in London so long as I was born in the US there will be no problem. They did bring up the 6 months validity as well though. The only stamps in the passport are a ton of US entry stamps and AU entry/exit stamps.

I'm searching for the TIMATIC information you mentioned but what I found is:

http://www.timaticweb.com/cgi-bin/ti...buser=DELTAB2C
Code:

/ 12OCT08 / 1241 UTC



National U.S.A. (US)            /Destination Malaysia (MY)


 Malaysia (MY)



Passport required.
- Passport and/or passport replacing travel documents must be
  valid at least six months on date of arrival.


Passport Exemptions:

- Holders of a Hong Kong (SAR China) Document of Identity.


Visa required, except for A stay of max. 3 months to nationals of U.S.A.

Minors:
- Minors up to and including 15 years of age may be listed in
  an accompanying adult's passport.
Additional Information:

- Admission refused to foreign ladies in an advanced stage of
  pregnancy, For details, click here
- Visitors must hold sufficient funds (at least USD 500.-). If
  required, passengers must be able to purchase a ticket to

  the country for which they hold a valid entry document. In
  addition, visitors must also hold:

 - onward/return ticket.

Warning:
- Passengers arriving with an invalid passport or travel
  documents may be deported to their country of origin at the
  transporting carrier's expense.

- Passengers arriving without visa (if required) may be
  deported to their country of origin at the transporting

  carrier's expense.


cpx Oct 12, 2008 7:33 am

From the department of state:
but i could not find any reference that says
"enter with passports valid for period of intended stay"

secretsea18 Oct 12, 2008 7:54 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by secretsea18 (Post 10506649)
I just got my passport back from it's 9.5 year renewal a few days ago. It has only 16 pages available for visas (the rest of the pages have the "Important Information about your Passport" stuff), and 3 pages for endorsements and amendments. I figure I'll be sending it in for new pages withing 2 years.

And weirdly, the picture page is not on the inside front cover, but on the left side of the next page.

How can you tell if you got the "chip" kind of passport? The cover of this new passport is soooo stiff compared with the mushy old one...

Quote:

Originally Posted by soitgoes (Post 10506657)
Those two things tell you you got the 'chipped' passport. You should also see the E-Passport logo on the cover.

Thanks for the info soitgoes. Unfortunately, I guess I did not get the bigger passport with the 53 visa pages, and only got the chipped one with 16 visa pages. My old passport had extra pages added, and it was over 3/4 full.

yosithezet Oct 12, 2008 7:56 am

Apologies to the OP as it seems I've hijacked half of the thread. :(

secretsea18 Oct 12, 2008 8:03 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpx (Post 10507664)
From the department of state:


but i could not find any reference that says
"enter with passports valid for period of intended stay"



I found this website on Google from the UK website of the US Embassy listing the countries for which the 6 month period is not required. I don't know if it will make any difference to the airline at checkin to carry this, as I have overheard conversations at the checkin counter between folks and the TA which refused a boarding pass for a person going to France with US passport (I could see it) with <6months validity. It appears YMMV.

hfly Oct 12, 2008 8:50 am

That is the standard boilerplate Malaysia Timeatic page, there is another one that deals with what I am talkingabout. May I suggest that you PM B747-437B as IIRC he knows the regulation which I am referring to.

Regarding the Israel thing, Yes, you can travel, however what I was saying was that it could be the reason that you are getting extra scrutiny.

Secretsea does sem t be on the right track as that is the other end of what I am referring to.

cpx Oct 12, 2008 9:18 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by secretsea18 (Post 10507736)
I found this website on Google from the UK website of the US Embassy listing the countries for which the 6 month period is not required. I don't know if it will make any difference to the airline at checkin to carry this, as I have overheard conversations at the checkin counter between folks and the TA which refused a boarding pass for a person going to France with US passport (I could see it) with <6months validity. It appears YMMV.

Thanks!!! that looks very promising. I just found the same information
here: http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/104770.pdf

BDA shorts Oct 12, 2008 1:01 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by hfly (Post 10506664)
I have never, in my several thousand border crossings or arrivals into any country been asked whether I have has a return or connecting ticket

Bermuda definitely asks if you have a return ticket, and then asks to see said ticket. At least, they asked me this the first time I came here, before I got a work permit.

Steve M Oct 12, 2008 3:28 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by hfly (Post 10507429)
In any case I would STRONGLY suggest that you return to TG, or to a travel agent right now and have then do a little search on TIMEATIC, not for the boilerplate entry requirements (which I do believe list six months regarding Malaysia for every single nationality on Earth) but the page which references what I posted above, which specifically deals with US treaty terms. I would give you the link if I had it, but I myself lifted it from an earlier FT post. Take aforesaid printout with you to the airport and then give them hell and get on the flight.

Or, you could just renew your passport more than 6 months prior to expiration. Considering that they are valid for 10 years, I don't think this is an undue burden. Signing something taking responsibility may not be enough to allow you to board. After all, the airline is on the hook to the destination country for return transport and any fines levied, regardless of whatever arrangements the passenger has with the airline. If you end up being denied entry, does the airline want to have to track you down to enforce reimbursement of any fine they got assessed?

hfly Oct 12, 2008 6:35 pm

I do not even remember any serious passport control in Bermude, let alone whether they asked for a ticket.

Steve, because its a pain. i pay for a 10 year passport, that passport s good for a full ten years to the vast majority of countries on earth (read up on the treaty posts) so why should I lose time or go through the hassle of getting a new one because of bureaucratic boilerplate which in this case is not applicable??

Hell, in any case, so what if your passport expired while you were/are away, you can get it renewed in less than a week almost anywhere on Earth (where there is a consulate or embassy) the whole thing is just stupid and antiquated.

Steve M Oct 12, 2008 7:27 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by hfly (Post 10509811)
Steve, because its a pain. i pay for a 10 year passport, that passport s good for a full ten years to the vast majority of countries on earth (read up on the treaty posts) so why should I lose time or go through the hassle of getting a new one because of bureaucratic boilerplate which in this case is not applicable??

Is it more of a pain than having to potentially be denied boarding on an int'l flight? It's not as if the renewal is an extra step or cost: you're going to have to do it anyway within 6 months. How many times are you going to renew your passport over your lifetime? Will that number be any different if you do it every 9.5 years vs every 10 years? Probably not.

There are a whole host of things that can make travel difficult. It strikes me that this is one thing that is easy to prevent and at essentially no cost, yet some people choose to make things difficult on themselves. Just my opinion.


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