Avoiding tipping in the U.S. -altogether!
#301
In memoriam
Join Date: Aug 2002
Programs: AA EXP "Life is good! Really good.""
Posts: 4,923
my last trip managed to not tip. Example arrived at kerbside check in at IND. The sign says fee $8, so I gave him my bag and he checked it in and then I gave him the money in change. He quickly reminded me it was $8 plus tip. I asked sorry but where does it say plus tip, he said it doesnt, "good then I paid the right amount" I said and walked off. It makes me sick how everyone expects a tip for doing what they are paid for and what you are often payting thorugh the nose for.
#302
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SGF
Programs: AS, AA, UA, AGR S+, Choice Platinum
Posts: 23,317
I think my meaning was quite clear.
A commissioned salesperson is paid on results. The more he sells, the more he makes. It's based on his revenue intake, because that is what he most effectively controls and what he can do to help the company. So, in effect, the customer is paying the employee by way of how much he or she buys.
Waitstaff have much less control over revenue (other than recommending appetizers, sides, and desserts), and their most effective metric is customer satisfaction. Since that's not something the employer can reliably measure (since few people will turn in comment cards or otherwise report on their satisfaction), tipping is one of the most efficient ways to incentivize servers to provide good service.
#303
Original Member, Ambassador: OneWorld Alliance

Join Date: May 1998
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Programs: AA ExecPlat & 3MM; Marriott Titanium
Posts: 1,015
For me it is not the percentage as much as how much tip is expected. I have no problem rounding a $20.xx bill to $25.00 for good service (20%-25%). But I feel differently about $102 bill. The "funny" thing is that the person getting the $4.xx tip is likely to be very appreciative while a $18 tip on $100 bill might get you a nasty look.
As far as claiming that the person serving you the $100 meal did more work I find this to be less than factual. The best way to see it is a meal with soft drinks vs. an identical meal with beer or wine. It is likely that the "soft drinks" meal required more work (due to free refills) while the total cost is going to be much lower. What is the justification in tipping the person that did less work more?
As far as claiming that the person serving you the $100 meal did more work I find this to be less than factual. The best way to see it is a meal with soft drinks vs. an identical meal with beer or wine. It is likely that the "soft drinks" meal required more work (due to free refills) while the total cost is going to be much lower. What is the justification in tipping the person that did less work more?
#304


Join Date: Jul 2008
Programs: I am a lowly ant
Posts: 1,756
For me it is not the percentage as much as how much tip is expected. I have no problem rounding a $20.xx bill to $25.00 for good service (20%-25%). But I feel differently about $102 bill. The "funny" thing is that the person getting the $4.xx tip is likely to be very appreciative while a $18 tip on $100 bill might get you a nasty look.
Wow.
As far as claiming that the person serving you the $100 meal did more work I find this to be less than factual. The best way to see it is a meal with soft drinks vs. an identical meal with beer or wine. It is likely that the "soft drinks" meal required more work (due to free refills) while the total cost is going to be much lower. What is the justification in tipping the person that did less work more?
I guess not, but the idea is that each pays according to his means - you are not in fact paying for the service you receive, but more like a 'tax' to cover the server's wages. And just as you pay more tax on $100k than $30k, you pay more 'tax' when you order better food.
Presumably a cheap restaurant makes a profit, just as an upscale one does, and the server will earn enough through turning more tables at the $20 diner to make a living. Maybe a higher percentage would be justified in the cheap diner, but you should not tip more in an expensive place simply because you ordered a cheap or time-consuming service. Your low $ amount will be balanced out by the guy paying a service charge on a $500 bottle of wine.
#305
Original Poster




Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Baltic Sea
Programs: AY, BT, DY and SK. HHonors, Radisson, Accor, Scandic and Marriott. ClubONE
Posts: 5,955
#307
Original Poster




Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Baltic Sea
Programs: AY, BT, DY and SK. HHonors, Radisson, Accor, Scandic and Marriott. ClubONE
Posts: 5,955
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrH:
Yes, but most of us have our performance based wages paid by our employers, not our employer's customers.
Originally Posted by jackal:Those who are on a sales commission are basically paid by their employers' customers.
Originally Posted by MrH:
Yes, but most of us have our performance based wages paid by our employers, not our employer's customers.
Originally Posted by jackal:Those who are on a sales commission are basically paid by their employers' customers.
In your second post in reply to me you corrected this.
#308
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: in the vicinity of SFO
Programs: AA 2MM (LT-PLT, PPro for this year)
Posts: 19,784
To the OP:
Given the cost of minibar drinks, why not go to a 7-11 instead?
Did he expect you to chip in? If not, why would his expense bother you?
That said, a 27% tip on a non-trivial bill would indicate (to my mind) extraordinary service or some fairly expensive (relative to the rest of the bill) comped items.
Some cities and counties in California have minimum/living wage ordinances above and beyond the state/federal minimum for tipped staff. I'm fairly sure, for example, that the San Francisco minimum wage ordinance applies to tipped staff as well.
Even if you don't request a fridge, it's pretty easy to find food that doesn't require refrigeration.
This is good advice outside the US too, of course - the ability to put together a good meal from say, Sainsburys in London or CONAD in Rome has made a HUGE difference in being able to eat well AND affordably when traveling where restaurants are relatively pricier.
Why would you have to sneak in booze? Is there some secret "no outside alcohol" rule at most hotels that I've never noticed?
I've brought my own bottle of wine for in-room consumption with my wife, or picked up my own sixer of beer many a time...
For some parts of the US, the fast food is the most authentic local cuisine anyway :P
There's no legal requirement to keep the wages down, only market forces that encourage it (often rather strongly.)
Given the cost of minibar drinks, why not go to a 7-11 instead?
That said, a 27% tip on a non-trivial bill would indicate (to my mind) extraordinary service or some fairly expensive (relative to the rest of the bill) comped items.
This is good advice outside the US too, of course - the ability to put together a good meal from say, Sainsburys in London or CONAD in Rome has made a HUGE difference in being able to eat well AND affordably when traveling where restaurants are relatively pricier.
You can find a way to sneak in booze too (every grocery store sells booze).
I've brought my own bottle of wine for in-room consumption with my wife, or picked up my own sixer of beer many a time...
There's no legal requirement to keep the wages down, only market forces that encourage it (often rather strongly.)
#309
Original Poster




Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Baltic Sea
Programs: AY, BT, DY and SK. HHonors, Radisson, Accor, Scandic and Marriott. ClubONE
Posts: 5,955
#310



Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: TUL
Programs: AA EXP 2MM; Marriott Titanium; Hyatt Explorist; MVC Chairman
Posts: 6,181
As far as claiming that the person serving you the $100 meal did more work I find this to be less than factual. The best way to see it is a meal with soft drinks vs. an identical meal with beer or wine. It is likely that the "soft drinks" meal required more work (due to free refills) while the total cost is going to be much lower. What is the justification in tipping the person that did less work more?
#311
Original Member, Ambassador: OneWorld Alliance

Join Date: May 1998
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Programs: AA ExecPlat & 3MM; Marriott Titanium
Posts: 1,015
#312
Original Member, Ambassador: OneWorld Alliance

Join Date: May 1998
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Programs: AA ExecPlat & 3MM; Marriott Titanium
Posts: 1,015
I don't short the tip in these cases (I do understand the impact) I just find it totally unjustified by the work performed.
#313
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Birmingham, England
Programs: LH SEN, Hilton Diamond, AF/KL & BA basic memberships, Tufty Club Exec Plutonium
Posts: 1,668



