Oct 12, 2015, 11:07 pm
Speculation: US 408 FA removes pax at PHX, people boo 12 Oct 2015
Oct 15, 2015, 11:17 pm
#91
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I believe she was quoted as saying she was talking. Not talking on the phone.
Oct 16, 2015, 12:49 am
#92
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After reading all of the posts in this thread, I am going to post an opposing view. It really doesn't matter that AA got bad publicity from this. All passengers seem to care about is a low airfare anyway. People get kicked off of planes on all of the carriers.
The point I am making is that I don't think this incident will make any significant difference to AA's bottom line. While passengers around her were saying they would never fly AA again, would they really go out of their way to avoid AA if it meant taking an extra connection or paying a higher airfare? My guess is no.
In a day or two, the public will have completely forgotten about all of this. AA is probably just going to wait this out.
The point I am making is that I don't think this incident will make any significant difference to AA's bottom line. While passengers around her were saying they would never fly AA again, would they really go out of their way to avoid AA if it meant taking an extra connection or paying a higher airfare? My guess is no.
In a day or two, the public will have completely forgotten about all of this. AA is probably just going to wait this out.
Oct 16, 2015, 2:11 am
#93
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What efforts did he make to specify it was her he was talking to?
" Hey lady in the green jacket / blond hair / next to door / with the white bag / standing next to 7C ..."
He could even have said to the person in front of her 'Sir could you ask the lady behind you ...'
Oct 16, 2015, 7:37 am
#94
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I think we can safely declare the 'slur' was a fabrication by Sassy Stew.
Id offer the cut her a break and say 'maybe she was given bad info', but given the fact she hasnt offered any corroboration nor has she retracted any 'fact', she seems to be willfully spreading this falsehood.
Kinda like cops when they maybe make a mistake- their tactic? double down, never admit it was a mistake.
Oh, wait- she was a cop, right?
Id offer the cut her a break and say 'maybe she was given bad info', but given the fact she hasnt offered any corroboration nor has she retracted any 'fact', she seems to be willfully spreading this falsehood.
Kinda like cops when they maybe make a mistake- their tactic? double down, never admit it was a mistake.
Oh, wait- she was a cop, right?
Just because no one has come out to back the FA doesn't mean they aren't out there. Its quite possible other passengers have given statements to AA but not the media that support the FA. AA would not be in a position to release that information themselves to the media. Personally, if I was in such a situation, I'd have no desire to be involved with the media but I'd gladly give a statement to the airline.
Also, there is the possibility that people have come out to the media supporting the FA but the media may have made the choice not to publicize this. Doing so would make the sensationalism out of the story which we all know media feeds on.
Ultimately when it comes down to it, none of us were there and don't know truly what happened. We probably never will.
Totally agree. This is simply a blatant abuse of power. Even if she did murmur a homophobic slur to the flight attendant -- which is highly unlikely as there is no evidence to corroborate the FA's story -- like another poster said, you are in the service industry and the professional thing to do is to suck it up.
What I see here are a number of things:
1. The FA was having a bad day and simply "snapped" so to say.
2. He conspired some BS story about the woman being uncooperative and using offensive language to the pilot.
3. The pilot's only mistake was placing too much trust in the FA's side of the story and giving the go-ahead to kick the woman off the flight.
Either way, terrible publicity for AA and surprised there is no public apology and more compensation (though at this point, it is too little too late).
What I see here are a number of things:
1. The FA was having a bad day and simply "snapped" so to say.
2. He conspired some BS story about the woman being uncooperative and using offensive language to the pilot.
3. The pilot's only mistake was placing too much trust in the FA's side of the story and giving the go-ahead to kick the woman off the flight.
Either way, terrible publicity for AA and surprised there is no public apology and more compensation (though at this point, it is too little too late).
Plus, there is no reason why somebody in the customer service industry should accept abuse even verbal from a customer. I'm in a industry whose main focus is customer service however if I caught a customer being abusive to a team member, that person would no longer be a customer.
Oct 16, 2015, 9:54 am
#95
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After reading all of the posts in this thread, I am going to post an opposing view. It really doesn't matter that AA got bad publicity from this. All passengers seem to care about is a low airfare anyway. People get kicked off of planes on all of the carriers.
The point I am making is that I don't think this incident will make any significant difference to AA's bottom line. While passengers around her were saying they would never fly AA again, would they really go out of their way to avoid AA if it meant taking an extra connection or paying a higher airfare? My guess is no.
In a day or two, the public will have completely forgotten about all of this. AA is probably just going to wait this out.
The point I am making is that I don't think this incident will make any significant difference to AA's bottom line. While passengers around her were saying they would never fly AA again, would they really go out of their way to avoid AA if it meant taking an extra connection or paying a higher airfare? My guess is no.
In a day or two, the public will have completely forgotten about all of this. AA is probably just going to wait this out.
FLIGHT ATTENDANTS
The public sees this kind of loss of control, these capricious and bullying acts, and it makes them mad. How many pax might retort to an FA, when they say "Could you please push your bag fully under your seat?", "Oh, I better do that right away- dont want to get kicked off...HAHAHAHA".
That one flight attendant did a massive disservice to his compatrtiots by his actions.
Period.
Because if there was any credible evidence there was a slur uttered the trajectory of this story would have changed. At this point reporters, AA staff, and others have spoken to a good many witnesses, in coach and in first. While WE do not have a totally complete picture, AA does. And it didnt look good for the FA.
Stew said 'many witnesses have contacted her'...yet none of these folks have talked to WaPo. Nor to AA. If there was a credible slur, AA would not have said what they said.
And of course *I* can 'safely declare' anything I want, since I am nobody.
Oct 16, 2015, 10:22 am
#96
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It's an interesting perspective: while I generally still have a positive perception of flight attendants as a whole, it's probably not as high as it was 15-20 years ago. Incidents like this linger in people's minds long after they've forgotten that this particular incident happened on AA.
I think of various outrageous incidents I've read about happening on airlines, whether a passenger or FA is at fault, and after time passes I can no longer associate the incident with the airline on which it happened. But I still hold the original opinion that the passenger was drunk, the FA was a bully, etc. The airline doesn't even matter after a while.
And I agree: the boycott of AA for these nearby passengers lasts right up until the next time one of them wants to book PHX-DFW. They're not routing through Denver simply because of this bad FA months ago, knowing full well the *next* bad FA they encounter is about twice as likely to appear on a United trip with two flights as an American trip with one.
(I'll just assume - for now - than UA and AA have a roughly equal collection of good, bad, and indifferent flight attendants.)
I think of various outrageous incidents I've read about happening on airlines, whether a passenger or FA is at fault, and after time passes I can no longer associate the incident with the airline on which it happened. But I still hold the original opinion that the passenger was drunk, the FA was a bully, etc. The airline doesn't even matter after a while.
And I agree: the boycott of AA for these nearby passengers lasts right up until the next time one of them wants to book PHX-DFW. They're not routing through Denver simply because of this bad FA months ago, knowing full well the *next* bad FA they encounter is about twice as likely to appear on a United trip with two flights as an American trip with one.
(I'll just assume - for now - than UA and AA have a roughly equal collection of good, bad, and indifferent flight attendants.)
Oct 16, 2015, 4:32 pm
#97
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This was a <redacted> /DYKWIA pax (in F, FWIW) who was a bit of a jerk in the lounge and then particularly nasty to one of the FAs during the pre departure service. Let's just say that I wasn't looking to forward to having to share the cabin and crew resources with him for 13 hours, and was quite relieved when he was offloaded.
Last edited by JDiver; Oct 17, 2015 at 4:24 pm Reason: Rules - offensive language
Oct 16, 2015, 8:43 pm
#98
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After reading all of the posts in this thread, I am going to post an opposing view. It really doesn't matter that AA got bad publicity from this. All passengers seem to care about is a low airfare anyway. People get kicked off of planes on all of the carriers.
The point I am making is that I don't think this incident will make any significant difference to AA's bottom line. While passengers around her were saying they would never fly AA again, would they really go out of their way to avoid AA if it meant taking an extra connection or paying a higher airfare? My guess is no.
In a day or two, the public will have completely forgotten about all of this. AA is probably just going to wait this out.
The point I am making is that I don't think this incident will make any significant difference to AA's bottom line. While passengers around her were saying they would never fly AA again, would they really go out of their way to avoid AA if it meant taking an extra connection or paying a higher airfare? My guess is no.
In a day or two, the public will have completely forgotten about all of this. AA is probably just going to wait this out.
The FAs should be terminated immediately- both for lying and for improperly ejecting a passenger with no just cause whatsover.
AA should be sued just so we can keep this in the news a bit longer and have a nice show trial (assuming the typically obstinate executives decide not to settle) - keep replaying that video, baby.
DOT should issue regulations protecting consumers from improper ejection by FAs. You'll notice the multi-hour imprisonment of passengers has completely disappeared since the new regs were issued. I'm sure this nonsense would also stop if the airlines got slapped down instead of backing their bad apples.
PS it would be silly to boycott AA - this happens on all carriers including WN.
Oct 17, 2015, 8:40 am
#99
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Sadly, the big losers here? Not AA. It is...
FLIGHT ATTENDANTS
The public sees this kind of loss of control, these capricious and bullying acts, and it makes them mad. How many pax might retort to an FA, when they say "Could you please push your bag fully under your seat?", "Oh, I better do that right away- dont want to get kicked off...HAHAHAHA".
That one flight attendant did a massive disservice to his compatrtiots by his actions.
Period.
Because if there was any credible evidence there was a slur uttered the trajectory of this story would have changed. At this point reporters, AA staff, and others have spoken to a good many witnesses, in coach and in first. While WE do not have a totally complete picture, AA does. And it didnt look good for the FA.
Stew said 'many witnesses have contacted her'...yet none of these folks have talked to WaPo. Nor to AA. If there was a credible slur, AA would not have said what they said.
And of course *I* can 'safely declare' anything I want, since I am nobody.
FLIGHT ATTENDANTS
The public sees this kind of loss of control, these capricious and bullying acts, and it makes them mad. How many pax might retort to an FA, when they say "Could you please push your bag fully under your seat?", "Oh, I better do that right away- dont want to get kicked off...HAHAHAHA".
That one flight attendant did a massive disservice to his compatrtiots by his actions.
Period.
Because if there was any credible evidence there was a slur uttered the trajectory of this story would have changed. At this point reporters, AA staff, and others have spoken to a good many witnesses, in coach and in first. While WE do not have a totally complete picture, AA does. And it didnt look good for the FA.
Stew said 'many witnesses have contacted her'...yet none of these folks have talked to WaPo. Nor to AA. If there was a credible slur, AA would not have said what they said.
And of course *I* can 'safely declare' anything I want, since I am nobody.
Also, you do not know what information AA has, doesn't have, etc. You don't know who may have contacted AA in support of the FA, what other evidence or statements there may be out there in support of the FA, etc. Just because there isn't "visible" evidence out there doesn't mean its not there. AA can't just go out and say, "Passenger ABC, DEF, etc. have contact us and have a different story than whats in the news". That would be a violation of the privacy of those passengers.
So again, you have nothing definitive to show the FA was in the wrong. Nor do we have anything to show he wasn't.
Oct 17, 2015, 10:14 am
#100
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But again, we don't know if the FA really did anything wrong. You keep jumping to unjustified conclusions.
Also, you do not know what information AA has, doesn't have, etc. You don't know who may have contacted AA in support of the FA, what other evidence or statements there may be out there in support of the FA, etc. Just because there isn't "visible" evidence out there doesn't mean its not there. AA can't just go out and say, "Passenger ABC, DEF, etc. have contact us and have a different story than whats in the news". That would be a violation of the privacy of those passengers.
So again, you have nothing definitive to show the FA was in the wrong. Nor do we have anything to show he wasn't.
Also, you do not know what information AA has, doesn't have, etc. You don't know who may have contacted AA in support of the FA, what other evidence or statements there may be out there in support of the FA, etc. Just because there isn't "visible" evidence out there doesn't mean its not there. AA can't just go out and say, "Passenger ABC, DEF, etc. have contact us and have a different story than whats in the news". That would be a violation of the privacy of those passengers.
So again, you have nothing definitive to show the FA was in the wrong. Nor do we have anything to show he wasn't.
One does not need any information about what actually happened to know that the vast majority of public commentary is negative against the FA.
Other than an FA blogger with a documented axe to grind against pax, I don't see a big groundswell of support for the FA who had the passenger removed.
We also know that AA apologized for how the passenger was treated.
That's all you you need to know in order to draw the conclusion that FA's didn't come out of this looking good. It doesn't matter what may or may not have happened, and that's why it's such a problem for FA's generally.
Greg
Oct 17, 2015, 10:15 am
#101
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Seen some rogue FAs on UA and CO over the years.
Thankfully my flights yesterday were drama free - well other than seat confusion on my second flight and VERY late boarding on the first flight
Oct 17, 2015, 12:55 pm
#102
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You're missing the point.
One does not need any information about what actually happened to know that the vast majority of public commentary is negative against the FA.
Other than an FA blogger with a documented axe to grind against pax, I don't see a big groundswell of support for the FA who had the passenger removed.
We also know that AA apologized for how the passenger was treated.
That's all you you need to know in order to draw the conclusion that FA's didn't come out of this looking good. It doesn't matter what may or may not have happened, and that's why it's such a problem for FA's generally.
Greg
One does not need any information about what actually happened to know that the vast majority of public commentary is negative against the FA.
Other than an FA blogger with a documented axe to grind against pax, I don't see a big groundswell of support for the FA who had the passenger removed.
We also know that AA apologized for how the passenger was treated.
That's all you you need to know in order to draw the conclusion that FA's didn't come out of this looking good. It doesn't matter what may or may not have happened, and that's why it's such a problem for FA's generally.
Greg
We dont need to know the truth to see that this is playing badly for FAs.
I suppose it could be the biggest injustice in the world- Pax swore at a different FA, nobody at all heard it except for that FA and sassy stew's source- and now an FA that did the right thing is getting screwed. Nobody knows the truth, AA is covering it up, all the reporters talking to pax via FB etc are all not hearing the truth or they too are covering it up. Yup, a vast passenger conspiracy against FAs....
Look at all the other times this stuff happens- the mom and autistic daughter kicked off, other events. The texture of the information that leaks out eventually DOES tell the story. To insist that we STILL dont know if she said fag is really futile, at this point.
The WaPo piece ran in my local paper a few days ago. Sacramento Bee.
Oct 17, 2015, 2:42 pm
#103
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In this world the average person is out to slam anyone of authority.
We slam cops, politicians , even our workers deserve a 16 week paid vacation .
We live in an entitlement world
We slam cops, politicians , even our workers deserve a 16 week paid vacation .
We live in an entitlement world
Oct 17, 2015, 3:23 pm
#104
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Which side do you believe was acting in an entitled fashion? Without being constrained by any facts, I could argue either way.
Greg
Oct 17, 2015, 9:42 pm
#105
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You're missing the point.
One does not need any information about what actually happened to know that the vast majority of public commentary is negative against the FA.
Other than an FA blogger with a documented axe to grind against pax, I don't see a big groundswell of support for the FA who had the passenger removed.
We also know that AA apologized for how the passenger was treated.
That's all you you need to know in order to draw the conclusion that FA's didn't come out of this looking good. It doesn't matter what may or may not have happened, and that's why it's such a problem for FA's generally.
Greg
One does not need any information about what actually happened to know that the vast majority of public commentary is negative against the FA.
Other than an FA blogger with a documented axe to grind against pax, I don't see a big groundswell of support for the FA who had the passenger removed.
We also know that AA apologized for how the passenger was treated.
That's all you you need to know in order to draw the conclusion that FA's didn't come out of this looking good. It doesn't matter what may or may not have happened, and that's why it's such a problem for FA's generally.
Greg
As to AA apologizing, thats a typical response to try to get a problem to go away (even if the airline doesn't necessarily think it was a problem). Just like a lawsuit, even if you don't agree with the suit, sometimes its easier and cheaper to settle than fight it.