McFlyPHL

I've attempted to escalate this (now with three rounds of back and forth via customer relations) and would like to get input from this board on how to handle it further.

On Monday my inbound flight landed late into PHL, but I was able to make it to my connecting flight just a few gates away a little more than 15 minutes prior to departure. When I arrived, I (and three other passengers) found that the agent had already closed the flight and was waiting outside on the ramp with other passengers to board the flight. It did not appear anyone was on the plane yet, but I couldn't say this for sure - the door was open, there was a line of folks waiting to board.

We stopped someone in uniform, who walked outside to ask the GA to board us. The GA refused, and the "helper" walked away mid-sentence as we were asking to speak to a supervisor or be reaccomodated. The net result is that we all had a 3.5 hour wait for the next flight, compounded by an additional half hour delay on that flight.

To me, this is IDB plain and simple. We were all present within the allotted time and were denied boarding.

I emailed customer relations, and received the standard boiler plate of "you need to be there 15 minutes beforehand" and a $25 "goodwill" ETUV. When I replied that I had been ad the gate 15 minutes prior but would accept an ETUV in the amount of IDB compensation, they sent a similar boilerplate and upped the ETUV to $50. The third round of back and forth they just said "tough" and told me to go away.

So, two questions:
1) Am I due IDB, as I believe? If so, how do I obtain it when US refuses to pay?
2) Does anyone have a link to the DOT complaint form handy? I can't seem to find it.

McFlyPHL

As an additive to this, Customer Relations decided to follow up on their "go away" email with a phone call indicating that they show only a 1 minute early departure and the flight had seats available (of course it did... >10% of the total seats on the plane were assigned to people they left) so they don't pay anything.

They were also nice enough to remind me of the 15 minute rule, but said that's a flexible time if the pilot decides to leave early.

I'm just amazed at how awful this company is to do business with.

beltway

That may be true, but it has absolutely no bearing on the DOT rule.

I think the biggest challenge will be proving that you really were there 15 minutes ahead of scheduled departure. US will undoubtedly claim otherwise.

Zanotti

Plus 1, they really don't have any concept of customer service. There are pockets of excellence, surrounded with very closed minded people.

McFlyPHL

The best I could do to prove this is a DM on twitter to a friend of mine - sent AFTER all of this, which has a time stamp of 8:46am, 14 mintues before scheduled departure.

Thing is - US acknowledged on the phone that I was there in time. They simly said they wouldn't pay IDB because the flight didn't go out full and the flight wasn't oversold. Hence their claim that IDB doesn't apply.

MADDENING!

steve64

IMHO, you should not have put words into their mouths about this being IDB.

In the true sense of the term as used by DOT, this is not IDB. They did not deny passage due to overselling the flight (either by physical seat count or by weight).
Side note, I'm assuming you're talking about a regional flight (...agent...was waiting outside on the ramp with other passengers to board the flight...). DOT rules are a little different (in the airline's favor) for small planes due to the fact that they can get "oversold" by weight much more frequently than a mainline jet. The seat count is a "hard" number, the allowable weight is highly variable.

Your complaint is that they had closed the flight ahead of the 15 minutes cutoff as specified in their Conditions of Carriage.
You have a valid complaint. And it is literally that they against your will, did not let you on their airplane, but the term IDB has specific meaning.

Customer Service Reps go thru how many complaints each day ?
They don't sincerely read thru each one ... they scan/research/respond/next item.
If you used the term IDB, I'd bet their scan focused on that one term and applied the industry/DOT specific definition. The research showed that this was not IDB, they offered a token "we're sorry", then moved on to the next complaint.

BoeingBoy

I assume that you were rebooked on the next available flight. If so, your real complaint is missing a connection that you shouldn't have missed because they closed out the flight so early. I'll assume that your inbound flight was delayed due to weather, which would normally give US an out but the real reason for missing the connection was early close out of the connecting flight.

I'd concentrate on this and the delay (thus inconvenience) in your travel that it caused instead of the IDB idea. The IDB compensation is out of the question for the reason that steve64 gave. So the best you'll get is a voucher for your inconvenience.

Jim

3Cforme

This is not a useful read of the regulation. The OP was denied boarding. If he was available for boarding as required (15 minutes is cited), it's IDB. If the aircraft wasn't a small one restricted for weight and balance, and the rebooked flight was scheduled to arrive more than 60 minutes after the ticketed flight, the OP is due IDB compensation. (15 mins and 60 minute requirements are specific to domestic itineraries.)

It's clear the OP's original complaint went into a Moron Hole. The US legal staff will be smarter; copy them and the DOT on the complaint.

Wilbur

The source of your problem is PHL, which continues to be the black hole of Customer Service.

BoeingBoy

The rule specifically says "Subject to the exceptions provided in �250.6, a carrier to whom this part applies as described in �250.2 shall pay compensation in interstate air transportation to passengers who are denied boarding involuntarily from an oversold flight as follows:" (Emphasis mine)

Jim

dcpatti

I am curious to know if the OP, upon arriving at PHL, had already been reticketed and confirmed on an alternate flight or if when arriving in PHL the original ticketing and routing were still in place.

Often1

It may or may not be useful in the sense that it doesn't help OP's argument, but the law is very clear that IDB only applies to "oversold" situations. This is made clear twice in the DOT rule, both as to the over-arching policy, 14 CFR Sec. 250.2, and in the penalties/compensation section, 14 CFR Sec. 250.5. Thus, even if the regulation covers non-oversold situations, the penalty is $0.

OP may think that he is entitled to IDB, but he is not and US has properly denied it. As others point out, OP believes and may well be correct that he presented himself for boarding in a timely manner and ought to have been boarded and is due some form of compensation for the COC violation which he believes ocurred.

OP would be far better off asking (not demanding) compensation for the violation of the COC, not for IDB (which will be denied and his record noted). It's a free country so he's free to complain to DOT, but they wrote the rule the way they wrote it and will deal with it as written.

In the end, the GA had to close out the flight in order to get the paperwork to the flight deck. Given OP's factual recitation, that likely ocurred before he returned when the flight pushed. That time will show in US' system.

McFlyPHL

The explanation about the flight not being oversold is the one US fell back on. Oh, well. The US guys at MDT really are quite nice, it's a shame I'll have to avoid their airline.

For clairty, when we landed we'd been late because of a mechanical on an earlier flight to PHL (they transferred some of the pax to empty seats on my first flight). This was compounded by a fuel truck parked at our gate for about 10 minutes on arrival to PHL.
When I landed my original routing was in place and I wasn't moved until the "denying" GA rebooked me after she closed the flight in the computer.

US' "final answer" on this was to tell me to go ahead and file a complaint with DOT and that $50 ETUV was all they'd offer.

beachbrew

I've emailed and gotten a response before, that had nothing to do with the question asked, the context yes, but the question no. So I would say rephrase and try again, the time I did I got the response I was looking for.

Orion

I am used to seeing the occasional flight depart early. It is often reflected in the departures monitor. I always assumed that everyone was on board so why not leave early?
Then my connection from MIA to MCO departed twelve minutes early according to the monitor. I had arrived on a flight that parked just a few gates away from my connection. I had ten minutes to run to the gate and was shocked to see the aircraft had already pushed. I was rebooked on a flight that departed about three hours later. I will always wonder if it left with my seat empty.