vincentvan

I came across this article this morning. Was anyone here at PHL yesterday and see any of this? Link:

http://www.avstop.com/news_sept_2010...s_unfairly.htm

AggieNzona

Nice how the reporter just let the union run with thier talking points and no mention that the reason there is no contract is 100% USAPA's own doing. Breaching the agreed to mediation once they didn' like the result, voting out the union and then voting in thier own and still not coming to a conclusion on seniorty. Tactics that would have made the old USSR Politburo proud!
I guess the union thinks US Airways should just throw so much money their way it ill make the two pilot sides stop their infighting.

kudzu

There's usually/always two sides to a story; here is the company's version

dtremit

But how long would it take them to agree on how to distribute it?

redheadtempe33

You are correct, there are two sides to any story, and the public should consider both.
That said, from an outside view (which, East pilots may ignore, but, labor actions - strikes, CHAOS - typically need public support), USAPA appears to have been formed just to get around the Nic agreement. There is no good way to spin this to the public. Most will say, "Be thankful you have a job". They are not going to get much support from the flying public, or from what I can gather, other pilot groups.
Does it suck for the East pilots? Probably, but it would have sucked a lot more if US Air had gone chapter 7.
Accept the Nic, and move on. The fact that Spirit pilots are making more should be a message.

LowlyDLsilver

This really isn't working out well for anybody.

The company still has to fly as essentially two separate airlines.

The pilots unions (essentially two, because the lists have not merged) can't negotiate effectively because they are still fighting each other. While the company gets the "benefit" of not having to pay more right now - the costs of running an extra airline probably eat that up plus a bit.

At least Dougie is smart enough to stay far away from the whizzing match between the two pilot groups.

Until the seniority list is resolved (for the second time ) negotiations will likely remain at a standstill. The over/under for the number of lawsuits that will take, I'm going to put at 3

BoeingBoy

That's probably 2 on the high side, unless you count appeals separately. The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals kicked the can down the road by saying a DFR suit wouldn't be ripe untile there was a ratified contract. The result of that suit, after appeals, will probably end the seniority dispute.

The company has filed with the District Court for declaratory relief, asking for 1 of 3 rulings:

1 - That USAPA is breaching it's DFR responsibilities by ignoring the arbitrator's seniority award and that US will have no legal liability if it insists on that award being in the negotiated contract,

2 - That USAPA is legally entitled to abandon the arbitrated award and that US is free to negotiate a contract containing USAPA's combined seniority list without incurring legal liability to the West pilots, or

3 - Regardless of whether USAPA breaches it's DFR, the company is free to negotiate a mutually agreeable contract with USAPA without incurring legal liability.

I have no idea what chance the company has to get one of the rulings it seeks, but that is likely to be the next shoe to drop in this nearly 4-1/2 year old dispute.

Jim

GaryZ

Actually how this should be handled in the modern world is the Company would decide what formula to use in integrating its workforce, not some fabricated union. I mean really... aren't these pilots an elite professional force who should be differentiated from rank and file union members?

BoeingBoy

If you take a ride on the way-back machine to a time when heads of the various airlines were the one's that founded and built each airline, but in today's airline environment where the bean counters run the show (just look at Parker and Kirby's backgrounds for 2 examples) pilots are no different than any other work group - an expense item to be minimized.

Jim

vincentvan

I know very little about the in's and out's of this whole mess, but it would be nice to see "peace in the valley" at long last...

GaryZ

Up to this point, I fully agree with you, the difference is that once the flying public boards an a/c they are fully in the hands of any decision the flight crew (aka: the captain) makes. Whether a pax gets thrown off the airplane, whether the plane needs to make a unscheduled landing and any number of other critical decisions are fully in the hands of those very, very unique professionals who know how to pilot a very large aircraft safely to its final destination. These professionals are akin to 'doctors of the the sky' and should act accordingly (IMHO) when it comes to their enumeration.

BoeingBoy

Pilots don't have as good a union as doctors. Too large a supply chasing too few good jobs. My oldest daughter was making 6 figures more after completing her training (undergraduate, med school, internship) than I made in in any year of the 35 years I flew for a living, and I had it easy compared to a lot of aspiring airline pilots.

Jim

Sparrow_Hawk

Whoa Gary,

With al due respect you may want to do a little research into how and how much pilots are paid.

If you've flown on a Beech 1900D operated by Great Lakes Aviation with a one year First Officer his salary was $13,500 per year last time I looked.

3 Year First Officer on a CRJ-700 operated by Mesa barely grosses 30K. Do your homework before you compare a pilot to a doctor income wise as in many cases the more accurate comparrison would be a pilot to an orderly.

BOS2DCA

Frontline did a special on this.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/flyingcheap/

Many pilots (and flight attendants) have to work second jobs or use food stamps to support their families. Personally, I wouldn't want a brain surgeon operating on me to be paid $13,500 annually and have to work a second job, causing fatigue and endangering my life. Same goes with pilots, who are responsible for our safety in the air.

Maybe Dougie and US Air executives who have earned big bonuses despite the fact that the company's stock has underperformed could donate some of their undeserved money to the pilots. Of course, many posters here just use this as an excuse to parrot anti-union talking points.

vincentvan

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