al613

It's tough to put teffilin on RJ (only if i have no other choice), but may be this boy is not very big.

joshwex90

I could quote others, but tahitigirl was simply the first person to respond. I didn't say that they were flying out of NYC, therefore they live there. Simply that there was a good chance. But even if not, it's likely that they would see this often even if they don't live there, considering they do that flight. And even if both of those statements are untrue, people on the flight are from the NYC area. As for TSA, I know that they are a sorely lacking security agency; they still should have been contacted as they are the people who are responsible for what does and does not get past security, and are the ones who would've realized that either they messed up and tell the FA to tackle this guy and divert the plane, OR tell them that this is a religious and not sinister article, and the flight can continue as normal. (Again, what diverting the plane as opposed to tackling him would've done is beyond me.)
And as an example to my first point, I recently flew CO from EWR-TLV. While on the plane, I got into a nice conversation with one of the FA's. The guy was originally from Seattle, currently lived in Houston, and this was his first time EVER on the TLV flight. He knew nothing of Jews growing up. HOWEVER, he completely (as much as one would expect) the Jewish dietary laws (read: the laws of Kashrut) because considering he was on a flight where there would be a large group of people eating kosher, this was something he would have to know. I asked him in a joking manner if he had simply googled the rules the day of the flight, and he responded that once CO stationed him to start doing flights out of the Newark area, he started learning the rules, because he understood that there's a larger population in the NYC are that keep kosher. The same should've been done here. I've worn tefillin on Continental, BA, Elal, LOT, Iberia...and no one has stopped me.

ELAL

I'm sorry but I realy don't seem to understand.

I understand that on mainline puddle jumpers you see less tefilin, than international flights (although according to one of your previous posts, you had a stewardess who had just arrived off a European flight), but an FA based in NYC operating mainline flights, will still see more tefilin than somebody living in NYC, where tefilin is restricted to the synagouge's.

(sorry for repeating this the 4th time, but there are those here who seem slightly slow to understand things)

craz

Im not trying to pin the Blame on the Kid. Only that a person needs to separate what the Law is from what ones Emotions might be.

Its very hard even for me to pray in the morning and later on to put on my Tefflin. The Law isnt that 1 Must wear them when saying the morning prays. Although if at all possible its probably if 1 does thats if they can. (sort of like when a person has 1 of 7 relations pass away and until that person is buried they are exempt from all Mitzvahs except the Negative Ones. Very weird not praying or benching for a couple of days till we buried my father in Israel (past away on Shabbos) but even if 1 wants to pray and put on tefflin its NOT permissable till after the interment of that Relative.

I really dont think the FA was an AntiSemite but just simply blew everything out of whack, and no way would I expect the Pilot to leave the cockpit to check out whats what. and they probably did the right thing by diverting and making sure all is Proper


I can only hope that everyone will realize that after 12/25 and 9/11 things just arent the way they used to be. So before doing something that might be taken wrongly by crew or fellow passengers, its best to try if at all possible to take care of ones Religious Obligations before boarding the flight or at least speak with an FA before hand.

craz

1- since Tefflin is put on for during morning prays isnt it possible that an FA doesnt work morning flights out of NY or FL or LA etc and might actually never see Tefflin being worn

2- Todays flight was a RJ and not MainLine thusly more likely then not that FA has Never in her life worked a Mainline as Chautaqua doesnt have Mainline jets and she doesnt work for USAir but does for Chautaqua. Same with the pilots they dont work for USAir so they too might except for training have never flown an actual Mainline Jet carrying passengers

3- When I pray in the Term before boarding be it LA,NY,Miami, etc etc I try to find an area where Im completely out of sight yet numerous times when Im done I see people looking at me as if they just saw an Alien and numerous times they came up to me asking what I was doing and why. This was even way before 9/11!

(BTW that FA was on my late afternoon flight to MCO, I wasnt praying on the flight.I just mentioned her since she was EWR based yet lived outside Orlando and flew up and back from her base)

sds1493

This kid is a relative of mine, so you could say that I am slightly biased, however, I do think that he didn't have to expect that the straps will be taken for wires. Honestly, they are slightly thicker, with (generally) shiny black on one side and white (undyed leather) on the other. Yes, he could have spoken to the FA, but I guess he figured that his sister could explain for him if he was incommunicado when the FA asked.
A little more common sense was needed here. Just imagine the kid landing in PHL suddenly surrounded by the TSA and LEO's.
A poor call by the FA and pilot.

wendyg

I'm from New York and grew up surrounded by (mostly lapsed) Jews, and the only reason I know what a tefillin is is that I read Chaim Potok's novels The Choice and The Promise when I was a teenager. I'm not sure I'd recognize one if I saw one - but if someone said "It's a tefillin" I'd know what they were talking about.

I think it's a genuine question about how much you can expect airline staff to know. There are a lot of cultures and a lot of customs to know about. That said, the symptoms of prayer are pretty similar no matter what the religion. A rosary doesn't look like a tefillin doesn't look like a prayer rug. But praying looks pretty much the same no matter who's doing it.

wg

N965VJ

We don’t have to accept this nonsense as the new normal. That’s letting the bad guys win.

tommyleo

^^^^^^^

That's been my point all along. The plane would have been made no more safe by diverting it if there had been a bomber on board. The bomber would have simply blown up the plane before it landed, as is a bomber's intent.

craz

sorry to disagree with You, what we need is Dare I say it is 'Profiling'.

about time they stop trying to find a bomb or whatever and learn how to look for the person who might be carrying it!

If The Vatician declared war on the US yes that would mean looking for Christians.If Israel declared war on the US that would mean looking for Israelis and yes a Jewish person. Since there are a few Muslim groups that have declared war on the US (and each other as well) then yes Muslims should be profiled. If China declared war on the US then Oriental people would be Profiled, unless theres a way with 100% certainty to know who is Chinese , Korean ,Japanese etc etc

Im not saying anyone who falls into the Profiled group is guilty of anything and shouldnt be allowed to fly. The opposite I see no reason for them not being allowed to fly.Only they would be singled out for more questioning before being let into the so called secured zone and flying. Yes I realize that if China was the problem they could find some non-Orientals that are with them and have them carry it out. Which was what happened a few times regarding the Muslims, The TWA flight that was heading to ATH and went to BEY was a German far Left wing group, Japanese Red Army people in TLV. But lately that hasnt been the MO

N965VJ

The TSA already has Behavior Detection Officers, and their performance has been, uh, less than stellar. Giving them more leeway in mission creep would be a huge mistake.

craz

So send them back to school to learn how to do it Right!!! or bring over here those who can properly teach them.

SS255

If he was praying with fervor, and (presumably) kissing his tzitzit, and perhaps when approached by the FA he did not respond (since Jews are not supposed to be interrupted when they pray).......I can see where someone who has never been exposed to this type of fervent prayer could be confused.

But when you see an Orthodox Jew who is dressed in prayer garb praying.......you can tell that they're praying!!! This goes for Muslims as well as any other religion. Praying is praying......and it doesn't look suspicious to me.

N830MH

I agree with you. It will eventually to locked the thread immediately. No one ever heard about Teens boy is praying on US flight out of LGA-SDF. He is not able to get charges for that. He will have to be removable off the plane immediately. Local authorities police will able interview him to get his questions or he could be releases from FBI to put him for next flight out of PHL. That's why he can't do that for pray during the flight. He could be more appropriate for his behaviors.

Hokie Gator Flyer

I know I'm in the minority here, but personally, I feel that the response by the flight crew was completely appropriate.

I grew up with many friends of the Jewish faith (attended Bar & Bat Mitzvahs, weddings). In fact most of our family friends were Jewish. I've also spent time in New York (flown in and out many times) and traveled internationally. This was the first time I have ever heard of a Tefflin.

Had I seen someone put this on while on a flight, not knowing what it was, I may very well have been alarmed too. As for praying, it's documented that the terrorists on 9/11 were praying right before killing thousands of people.

We live in a very nervous world today as a result of previous events and the flight crew did what they felt was best at the time.