Airlines Set to Crack Down on 'Creative' Ticketing
Jun 21, 2002, 2:11 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2000
Programs: AA - Lifetime Gold
Posts: 1,513
Airlines Set to Crack Down on 'Creative' Ticketing
Jun 21, 2002, 2:38 pm
#2
Join Date: May 2001
Location: San Francisco CA, UA 1K
Posts: 225
See related thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/012626.html
Jun 21, 2002, 3:11 pm
#3
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Posts: 257
OK, so they're cracking down on back-to-backs.
What about nested tickets? Anyone know a.) whether they're also against the rules, and if so, b.) if they're cracking down on these too?
Thanks in advance for any replies.
What about nested tickets? Anyone know a.) whether they're also against the rules, and if so, b.) if they're cracking down on these too?
Thanks in advance for any replies.
Jun 21, 2002, 4:12 pm
#4
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Akumal, Mexico
Programs: Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium (thanks to SPG), AA Life Gold, UA Life Gold
Posts: 840
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Lootsy1031:
OK, so they're cracking down on back-to-backs.
What about nested tickets? Anyone know a.) whether they're also against the rules, and if so, b.) if they're cracking down on these too?
Thanks in advance for any replies.
</font>
OK, so they're cracking down on back-to-backs.
What about nested tickets? Anyone know a.) whether they're also against the rules, and if so, b.) if they're cracking down on these too?
Thanks in advance for any replies.
</font>
Jun 21, 2002, 5:08 pm
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 11,468
My T.A. also got a very "stern" letter from UA re back-to backs. Further, UA became very strict re waivers. The tell me they move lots of business over to AA and DL, who are more flexible in this area.
Jun 21, 2002, 10:09 pm
#6
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Clemente, CA
Posts: 376
UA has purchased data base technology that will scan FF (especially MP) to catch these offenders.
Jun 22, 2002, 7:51 am
#7
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NYC; UA PremierExec, Hilton Gold; Starwood Gold
Posts: 178
Seems to me that catching people who fly UA so much they need to do "creative ticketing" is the last thing UA needs to be spending bucks on right now! Retaining MP members might be a more pressing issue in the long run.
Jun 22, 2002, 7:13 pm
#8
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: ORD, MBS
Programs: UA Plat., 1.52 MM
Posts: 2,053
Fine.
UA rules are not the law of the land.
All UA has to do is write a patch to its internet software to BLOCK me or you from creating a 'back to back' or a 'nesting' ticket. --- That is an easy piece of programming. So far UA didn't do it.
UA sells a ticket and collects a fare -- it is binding on UA to honor it, regardless of the routing structure. If UA, or for that matter anyother airline, will 'crackdown', some bright FT lawyer will be glad to test it in court. Let's see then...
Lastly, I am a DUMMY. I don't know how to read those fare rules written in Jibberish. If I would take UA or anyother airline to court for not honoring a paid ticket, I'll get my lawyer to show to, and ask Jane and Joe the jurors, if they understand the fare rules -- open jaw, broken jaw, locked jaw.... The judge will have a field day. He/she are likely fed up with the 200 different fares on same flight.
UA rules are not the law of the land.
All UA has to do is write a patch to its internet software to BLOCK me or you from creating a 'back to back' or a 'nesting' ticket. --- That is an easy piece of programming. So far UA didn't do it.
UA sells a ticket and collects a fare -- it is binding on UA to honor it, regardless of the routing structure. If UA, or for that matter anyother airline, will 'crackdown', some bright FT lawyer will be glad to test it in court. Let's see then...
Lastly, I am a DUMMY. I don't know how to read those fare rules written in Jibberish. If I would take UA or anyother airline to court for not honoring a paid ticket, I'll get my lawyer to show to, and ask Jane and Joe the jurors, if they understand the fare rules -- open jaw, broken jaw, locked jaw.... The judge will have a field day. He/she are likely fed up with the 200 different fares on same flight.
Jun 23, 2002, 8:55 am
#9
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 282
In all honesty, I don't feel it's right for airlines to overcharge business travelers by as much as 1000% or more. If the fares were more reasonable, the "rules" wouldn't be broken.
Price discrimination becomes difficult in a transparent sales structure, so the market will tend to equilibrate eventually. Let's see what happens.
Price discrimination becomes difficult in a transparent sales structure, so the market will tend to equilibrate eventually. Let's see what happens.
Jun 23, 2002, 8:59 am
#10
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,748
So if I do a back-back ticketing on ual.com, will United send a stern leter to itself?
Jun 23, 2002, 10:19 am
#11
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: source of weird and eccentric ideas
Posts: 38,691
preventing back-to-back ticketing is not really easy. You can always buy a ticket in your name but without your FF number, and another set with your FF number, on the same airline. You might have to take your return trip as a "nobody" in coach but you save money and the airline can't do much about it as they do not easily track tix by name (although they could try.)
They don't *really* want to make an issue out of this, they would rather pressure TAs on to do it and scare large corporations from doing it. That is what they do -- prevent large entitites from doing it and leave regular people alone, largely.
The cockeyed pricing structure is something that actually makes sense from the consumer's point of view. Leisure travel prices are very low because they are filling up seats that would otherwise fly empty, but the airlines can't make money charging $200 R/T for a transcon.
I know you will say "yes, but JetBlue does it, or Southwest does it." But those airlines have nowhere near the overhead structures, the F class, the route network, the system of taking care of you when something goes awry. Those airlines are disruptive to the majors and eventually may win out and the majors may disappear, but if that happens look for air travel to get more uncomfortable and difficult and look for airline ticket prices to start rising.
They don't *really* want to make an issue out of this, they would rather pressure TAs on to do it and scare large corporations from doing it. That is what they do -- prevent large entitites from doing it and leave regular people alone, largely.
The cockeyed pricing structure is something that actually makes sense from the consumer's point of view. Leisure travel prices are very low because they are filling up seats that would otherwise fly empty, but the airlines can't make money charging $200 R/T for a transcon.
I know you will say "yes, but JetBlue does it, or Southwest does it." But those airlines have nowhere near the overhead structures, the F class, the route network, the system of taking care of you when something goes awry. Those airlines are disruptive to the majors and eventually may win out and the majors may disappear, but if that happens look for air travel to get more uncomfortable and difficult and look for airline ticket prices to start rising.
Jun 23, 2002, 10:48 am
#12
Join Date: Sep 2001
Programs: Alaska Tanzanite 100K
Posts: 3,858
actually, United sent us a fax, I typed it out on FlyerTalk, but I forgot the link.
And yes, UNITED does have the right to NOT allow nested or back-to-backs, despite what some of you guys may think otherwise.
In terms of waivers @ UA, they haven't slowed down w/ me.... maybe the TAs were rude to Star Desk or Inside Sales.... I personally have a great relationship w/ my Inside Sales rep and Account Executive (actual Sales rep). Now they do need a good reason for a waiver... not "just because they don't want to pay a BA3 fare". Last waiver I got from UA: was for a 1P... M fare down to a V fare. Saved her $550.
-nate
And yes, UNITED does have the right to NOT allow nested or back-to-backs, despite what some of you guys may think otherwise.
In terms of waivers @ UA, they haven't slowed down w/ me.... maybe the TAs were rude to Star Desk or Inside Sales.... I personally have a great relationship w/ my Inside Sales rep and Account Executive (actual Sales rep). Now they do need a good reason for a waiver... not "just because they don't want to pay a BA3 fare". Last waiver I got from UA: was for a 1P... M fare down to a V fare. Saved her $550.
-nate
Jun 23, 2002, 7:30 pm
#13
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: SMF
Programs: UA 1K MM, AA EXP
Posts: 1,537
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by richard:
Preventing back-to-back ticketing is not really easy. You can always buy a ticket in your name but without your FF number, and another set with your FF number, on the same airline. You might have to take your return trip as a "nobody" in coach but you save money and the airline can't do much about it as they do not easily track tix by name (although they could try.)</font>
Preventing back-to-back ticketing is not really easy. You can always buy a ticket in your name but without your FF number, and another set with your FF number, on the same airline. You might have to take your return trip as a "nobody" in coach but you save money and the airline can't do much about it as they do not easily track tix by name (although they could try.)</font>
Tut tut. Wash your mouth out.
Lurker
[This message has been edited by Lurker (edited 06-23-2002).]
Jun 23, 2002, 8:08 pm
#14
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Bethesda, MD USA
Posts: 2,802
Them be the rules. You pays yous money, and yous takes your chances. I got to skate a long time ago with swapping tickets with a coworker. This was before they started checking IDs.
Now? I wouldn't even bother to try. I probably would get arrested for even trying.
Now? I wouldn't even bother to try. I probably would get arrested for even trying.
Jun 28, 2002, 12:25 pm
#15
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Programs: MM,flyer AA,UA, LH Senator
Posts: 201
Our travel agent issues us a ticket on United and the return on another airline. United ends up losing 50% of the revenue. I'm sure EXO didn't plan on someone using this algorithum.