basenji

...effective February 14 or 15...

1K-SFO

Wow. ORD's had that flight since 1996 or so.

A quick check of the schedule on 3/1/02 shows that UA/982 (new flight number--has been UA/952) departs IAD 5:35pm, arrives DUS 7:25am. UA/983 departs DUS 12:30pm, arrives IAD 3:40pm. (That's a long turn-around time... five hours on the ground...)

Still a 767-300.

I always thought there was a nice symmetry to both ORD and IAD having FRA routes, with each splitting one of the single-flight other German cities (DUS/MUC). (Call me crazy. ) Oh well...

[edited for poor typing skills]

[This message has been edited by 1K-SFO (edited 12-02-2001).]

Starman

Events of 9-11 aside, this has got to make more sense, and I've always wondered why DUS wasn't served from IAD from day 1. It's a much more sensible connection for those originating on the East Coast

Sweet Willie

true, but not if you are in Chicago, so now this route is not attractive for me.

MrMillion

I guess the same could be said for a non-stop to, say, ZRH?

The DUS-ORD connection has an interesting life story: Lufthansa originated it after flying DUS-JFK for some years. In the early, pre-Airbus days they were using DC10s on both routes. Germany-bound, both the JFK and the ORD flight would get into DUS at about 600am or shortly thereafter. Seeing as DUS does not permit inbound traffic before 600am one would often have a delayed departure during the winter here in the US or, alternatively, circle over who-knows-where to bide time. In the latter case it sometimes seemed like it it was a question of honor for the pilots to make the approache run so that the wheels would touch the runway at exactly 0600 hours. Then came the codeshare agreement (pre-alliance) with AA and they had, as I recall, two such runs between ORD and DUS and ORD and MUC. DUS was using LH metal and MUC was using AA metal. When the alliance rolled around, LH was required to abandon the DUS-ORD flight to AA, which futzed around with the times a little and then abandoned it altogether some time later. The route was not served for a few years until UA picked it up in 1996 or so. While the flight number 952/953 went all the way to HNL and then LAX and then SFO, eventually UA pushed the flight times back to where they are today in order to accommodate primarily Midwest connections. Then LH changed their NY connection for the DUS run to EWR and then CO appeared, yet with another DC10, on the same route (LH had been using an A310 and then an A340 since the DC10s disappeared). CO anbandoned that run before 9/11 and LH since. This leaves the UA flight as the only regularly scheduled North American connection left in DUS. This is the reason why that connection is subsidized by the DUS airport (I don't know exactly how; maybe by waiving the landing fees (CO's official "excuse" for pulling out was that the airport was too expensive; LH, as I recall, even went to court to have the fees in DUS lowered but got nothing)). Then, after 9/11, UA cancelled all kinds of flights and made ORD, at the time that the 953 comes in, much less of a desirable connecting point. To me, the time of day is much more of an issue than the location. IAD does not strike me as a particularly better hub, either. The whole Midwest and some of South Central are routed through ORD or DEN anyway or the nonstops are gone already by the time the flight from Germany comes in. I think they would have been better advised to readjust the scheduled times between DUS and ORD rather than to move it to IAD, where it will be OK for awhile and then go the way of the ZRH connection. It's not too early to start the death watch for that connection now, what say?

1K-SFO

MrMillion, thanks for the great background!

The point that makes the most sense to me is the now-poor timing of the in-bound-to-ORD connections when one flies DUS-ORD... with the removal of late-evening flights, there aren't many left to connect to if you're inbound DUS-ORD.

tom911

There's certainly one benefit for those of us out west: more miles.

SFO-IAD-DUS is 6,392 miles, while SFO-ORD-DUS was only 6,076. Over 300 more base miles for the new routing.

Gaucho100K

Wow.... this was close. Good thing this was not done earlier (for those of us attending the DUS II gathering).

Warrenlm

Just what I was thinking! Glad it is after the RiDE!!

RichardMEL

Cancel
952 ORDDUS Dep:2055/Arr:1210, eff 2/14-inf.
953 DUSORD Dep:1520/Arr:1750, eff 2/15-inf.
Add
982 IADDUS Dep:1735/Arr:0725, eff 2/14-3/29
Dep:1730/Arr:0840, eff 3/30-4/6
Dep:1730/Arr:0740, eff 4/7-inf.
983 DUSIAD Dep:1230/Arr:1540, eff 2/15-3/30
Dep:1330/Arr:1520, eff 3/31-4/6
Dep:1230/Arr:1520, eff 4/7-inf.
Renumber
950 ORDIAD to 982, eff 2/14-inf.
951 IADORD to 983, eff 2/15-inf.
952 SFOORD to 154, eff 2/14-inf.
953 ORDSFO to 153, eff 2/15-inf.
210 SANIAD to 950, eff 2/14-inf.
201 IADSAN to 951, eff 2/15-inf.

------------------
RichardMEL, UA 1K
A Star Alliance Member.

Gaucho100K

Richard... I always wonder where you get all this great information from !!!

parallelrechner

It's a pity. The mid afternoon DUS departure to ORD with connection to (and late arrival at) EWR was very nice, more time at home (DUS), more miles, low prices...

However, it is still possible to fly DUS-NYC via ORD for the miles (they have a routing DUS-ORD with stop in IAD plus a connection to LGA). However, midday departure is a bad thing for most Europeans working at the Eastern US. So many of us will probably find their way back to European based carriers with late afternoon or evening departures.

However, many thanks for bringing this topic up way in advance, so that we are in good shape to modify travel plans accordingly.

I like this board.
CU

MUC Flyer

With LH's DUS EWR service still in mothballs, I think UA is looking to get the east coast pax to go through IAD instead of FRA. With UA serving all other 2nd tier destinations MUC, MXP, BRU) only through IAD plus the above mentioned LH service cancellation, I have to say, UA has done somthing logical for once.

djohannw

I think the earlier departure of that flight finally axes the DUS-EWR flight for a long time. With that arrival/departure time and they way the LH-terminal in DUS is set up (only one longhaul-gate), the flight from NYC had to come in sometime after 1pm because the UA flight does block the gate until then.

Even if they do a "flying change", that would mean the NYC flight had to leave EWR/JFK at an unchristian 11pm and the DUS-NYC segment could depart DUS at earliest 3:30pm, with a New York arrival around 5:45. I don't think that would work, considering the necessarity to rotate the aircraft at Newark with the MUC-flight because DUS has no A340 base.

What about the idea that LH will start ORD-service from DUS with the new summer-schedule? As far as I know the UA-flight to ORD always did pretty well...

Greetings - Dirk

MAH4546

Lufthansa does appear to be brining back all of thier canceled US routes, sans TXL-IAD, and two new ones (MIA-MUC and BOS-MUC) for the summer. So far, only the return of EWR-MUC is on the scheds (01Mar02), but it does appear as though SFO/LAX-MUC and EWR-DUS are returning. DUS now lacks serverly in trans-Altantic flights. Only ORD/IAD, MIA, and RSW (Ft. Meyers, Florida).