Odd upgrade waitlist behaviour
May 27, 2009 | 6:41 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: West Yorkshire
Programs: UA Plat 2.2MM, AA nobody, IHG Gold, HH Gold
Posts: 279
Odd upgrade waitlist behaviour
Just had a slightly weird experience on my first attempt at sponsoring an U/G. I've been waitlisted on a SFO-HNL flight for weeks for NF (looks like it should clear so no worries there). I sponsored a colleague on the same flight yesterday using a CR1 and hers cleared immediately (she's got no status by the way). Called 1K desk where the person was unable to offer an opinion other than my colleague "got lucky"! Anyone know how this can happen?
May 27, 2009 | 6:58 am
#2
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 41,216
Of course that cannot happen if things are in order. If NF opens up, the PA should be processed and if NF is not available then she should have been fed to the PA after you.
They should have checked that
- you are indeed still waitlisted for that flight
- the waitlist is open
- forwarded the incident to IT support as this clearly constitutes an erroneous operation
- ring IM and try to offer your upgrade to clear as well
This is not good.
May 27, 2009 | 7:22 am
#3
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: DL Diamond, UA 1K MM, SPG Plat For Life, Marriott Plat, Nexus/GlobalEntry
Posts: 9,198
This may be a dumb question.. but are you sure your upgrade was not requested using e500's? You are outside the e500 window so it would be reasonable that your upgrade request would be pending even though there was NF space available currently. That is the only explanation that I can think of that would allow your sponsoree to clear and not you.
May 27, 2009 | 7:45 am
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: West Yorkshire
Programs: UA Plat 2.2MM, AA nobody, IHG Gold, HH Gold
Posts: 279
No, I'm using miles as part of an international trip. Everything else has cleared including the return leg from HNL which was also originally waitlisted.
May 27, 2009 | 7:57 am
#5
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: DL Diamond, UA 1K MM, SPG Plat For Life, Marriott Plat, Nexus/GlobalEntry
Posts: 9,198
Well in that case... does your itinerary say you're waitlisted for NC or NF for SFO-HNL? Maybe the system has somehow waitlisted you for NC but the flight (being only 2 class) only has NF?
I'm grasping at straws here I know...
I'm grasping at straws here I know...
May 27, 2009 | 8:26 am
#6
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: xLAS
Posts: 1,362
yup...
...
But I've also recently had an odd experience which tells me that UA's UPG system doesn't work flawlessly (coming from the database world, I'd say that there's a bug with a database trigger somewhere, but that it's on the back end and not with .bomb), and that the "it's a .bomb error" crowd isn't always right (though they may be sometimes/frequently). Here's that experience:
Last Wednesday I booked a B fare for myself BKK/NRT/SFO/BOS on July 1 (then EWR/SFO/LAX LAX/SFO/NRT/BKK, but those parts aren't relevant). I applied an SWU to the BKK/NRT/SFO/BOS piece (all 1 day of travel) and none of it cleared.
Then Friday I booked a Q fare -- same flight segments -- for my wife. Her SFO/BOS segment cleared immediately when I applied the SWU to her itinerary. Mine still hadn't cleared.
My wife has MP status of "general member." I'm Global Services.
After that, I called the GS number for something else -- I wanted to apply CR1s to the EWR/SFO/LAX piece of our itineraries, and had them in my account, but .bomb would only give me the choice of using mileage or SWUs to upgrade. When the agent applied the CR1s, she said she'd forward my itinerary to the Inventory Management desk (so that if the loads are low enough, they can clear my upgrades early). 5 days after that, SFO/BOS still hasn't cleared (last time the GS desk sent an itinerary to IM for me, IM cleared all my upgrades on that itinerary within a couple of days of receiving the itinerary).
So, somehow, with a higher MP status (GS vs. general), a higher fare (B vs. Q), and applying for the upgrade 2 days before my wife, she still beat me to the upgrade on the same flight...
No complaints, since we're better off that way (in theory, I'm more likely to clear than her as the flight date approaches... but then again, maybe they're giving away all the upgrades to other people, and another general member on a Q fare will beat me to the next available upgrade), but it does show an issue with their system, on the back side with their inventory management or upgrade triggers, not on the front side (UA.com).
But I've also recently had an odd experience which tells me that UA's UPG system doesn't work flawlessly (coming from the database world, I'd say that there's a bug with a database trigger somewhere, but that it's on the back end and not with .bomb), and that the "it's a .bomb error" crowd isn't always right (though they may be sometimes/frequently). Here's that experience:
Last Wednesday I booked a B fare for myself BKK/NRT/SFO/BOS on July 1 (then EWR/SFO/LAX LAX/SFO/NRT/BKK, but those parts aren't relevant). I applied an SWU to the BKK/NRT/SFO/BOS piece (all 1 day of travel) and none of it cleared.
Then Friday I booked a Q fare -- same flight segments -- for my wife. Her SFO/BOS segment cleared immediately when I applied the SWU to her itinerary. Mine still hadn't cleared.
My wife has MP status of "general member." I'm Global Services.
After that, I called the GS number for something else -- I wanted to apply CR1s to the EWR/SFO/LAX piece of our itineraries, and had them in my account, but .bomb would only give me the choice of using mileage or SWUs to upgrade. When the agent applied the CR1s, she said she'd forward my itinerary to the Inventory Management desk (so that if the loads are low enough, they can clear my upgrades early). 5 days after that, SFO/BOS still hasn't cleared (last time the GS desk sent an itinerary to IM for me, IM cleared all my upgrades on that itinerary within a couple of days of receiving the itinerary).
So, somehow, with a higher MP status (GS vs. general), a higher fare (B vs. Q), and applying for the upgrade 2 days before my wife, she still beat me to the upgrade on the same flight...
No complaints, since we're better off that way (in theory, I'm more likely to clear than her as the flight date approaches... but then again, maybe they're giving away all the upgrades to other people, and another general member on a Q fare will beat me to the next available upgrade), but it does show an issue with their system, on the back side with their inventory management or upgrade triggers, not on the front side (UA.com).
May 27, 2009 | 10:44 am
#7
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 41,216
UA stealth approach to the abolition of confirmed upgrades 
.
.
May 27, 2009 | 2:26 pm
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: West Yorkshire
Programs: UA Plat 2.2MM, AA nobody, IHG Gold, HH Gold
Posts: 279
Hopefully not! It was an NF waitlist BTW. I was wondering if the way the system worked was a bit like the sweep that pushes people out of E+ that people talk about. Maybe the upgrade waitlist only gets checked at intervals and if you get in between those when IM release UGs you just get lucky?? Not that that's the way we expect the system to work of course...
May 27, 2009 | 2:57 pm
#9
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: San Francisco
Programs: All-Around Kettle
Posts: 3,355
Maybe it's a married segments issue, because you have a connecting flight? I think I read on FT recently that upgrades are being subjected to married segments, though I don't know whether that is true.
Does united.com say NF0?
Does united.com say NF0?
May 27, 2009 | 3:01 pm
#10
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Boston
Programs: UA 1K, SPG
Posts: 1,577
There have been some scattered reports of odd upgrade behavior in the later posts of thread:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...xf-hawaii.html
...and another thread I can't find right now.
This is really bad, and I hope you escalate this with a supervisor if you get a chance. IM clearly has a bug. I can only hope it's confined to HNL routes or HNL itineraries with international connections.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...xf-hawaii.html
...and another thread I can't find right now.
This is really bad, and I hope you escalate this with a supervisor if you get a chance. IM clearly has a bug. I can only hope it's confined to HNL routes or HNL itineraries with international connections.
May 28, 2009 | 2:02 am
#11
Join Date: Jan 2000
Programs: UA 1k, AA EXPLT, NZ GE, VA PLT Hyatt Diam, Marr Plat, HH Diam
Posts: 3,740
It's possible that you were accidentally put on a PB while your friend went on a PA.
May 28, 2009 | 2:08 am
#12
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Crystal City, VA
Programs: United Mileage Plus 1K 2.7 MM, HHonors Lifetime Diamond, Marriott Lifetime Silver (!)
Posts: 2,648
May 28, 2009 | 2:46 am
#13
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: WLG, New Zealand
Programs: QF LTG/P1 NZ KB UA LTG
Posts: 1,952
Eg LHR-DEN-HNL with the DEN-HNL being booked as a direct flight on UA77 (flying DEN-SFO-HNL). But, if this were the case, then the DEN-SFO would not have already cleared
I'm guessing that, as per SFO_FT, that the OP was placed on the PB list but that should be easy to check
Jeff
May 28, 2009 | 3:03 am
#14
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Programs: VA Gold, UA, SPG Gold, HH Diamond, Marriott Gold, IHG Ambassador
Posts: 3,644
It is a concern . I also hope the waitlists are able to reflect upgraded status, as I am making a rapid climb from the bottom to 1P and would like to see 1P taken into account (sure its not 1K, but its better than the lower elite levels) 
.
I am sitting on LAX HNL LAX waitlists. There is NO NF avail on any flights that I could see around my dates. Seems IM are no hurry to clear it either, yet the seat maps are empty and there is XF space avail.
So its a waiting game.
. I also hope the waitlists are able to reflect upgraded status, as I am making a rapid climb from the bottom to 1P and would like to see 1P taken into account (sure its not 1K, but its better than the lower elite levels) .I am sitting on LAX HNL LAX waitlists. There is NO NF avail on any flights that I could see around my dates. Seems IM are no hurry to clear it either, yet the seat maps are empty and there is XF space avail.
So its a waiting game
.
May 28, 2009 | 5:01 am
#15
Join Date: Jan 2009
Programs: UA 1K MM, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 149
I had the same experience several times upgrading a B fare or W fare using miles and SWU.
When I apply for an upgrade and NC=0 I'm put on the wait list. When NC clears I'm not transfered to NC unless I call united. I have to use KVS tool to check the status on NC almost daily before my flight.
However when I apply for an upgrade and NC > 1 the upgrade clears immediatly.
Therefore the person who applies for the upgrade first is not the one that gets the seat.
NOTE: 4 hours before international flights all available seats on F and C becomes available as NF and NC. By this time the upgrade list is already under airport control, and they seems to follow the rules. First clearing by status than by order of upgrade applycation.
When I apply for an upgrade and NC=0 I'm put on the wait list. When NC clears I'm not transfered to NC unless I call united. I have to use KVS tool to check the status on NC almost daily before my flight.
However when I apply for an upgrade and NC > 1 the upgrade clears immediatly.
Therefore the person who applies for the upgrade first is not the one that gets the seat.
NOTE: 4 hours before international flights all available seats on F and C becomes available as NF and NC. By this time the upgrade list is already under airport control, and they seems to follow the rules. First clearing by status than by order of upgrade applycation.