Well let's just add hossra to the list of CEOs who need to be fired. :D

Where's my "hossra must go" bracelet?

I don't see how you leap to that conclusion. Domestic C is a service that is unique to UA. They are going to figure out whether people like it for the seat or the food. Since it is mostly full of upgraders, it's an experiment that will definitely save money and probably not affect revenue much.

Changing domestic F without the rest of the industry is a much different situation. Then customers can easily defect to airlines with better service. Totally different situation.

Is there an F cabin at Southwest?

Not to mention that he just took E+ away from them. Perhaps he should think about talking to his employees first before deciding in his own head what they would prefer. Typical CEO.

The worst thing that the corporate traveller can face is a management that can't make up its mind on their travel policies. Switching preferred carriers on a whim destroys the elite status that employees have built up to make their travel just a little more pleasant. Consistency is important to the employees. If management decides that change is needed (for whatever reason), it is best to change at the beginning of the year to give employees a realistic shot at making high elite levels over the year.

The bolded part is simply untrue as noted above. In addition, it isnt the name of the class that matters but the cost/service. If one can book business first or whatever from CO or DL for close to the same price as UA C, and it provides service better than UA C although not as good as UA F, why wouldnt one do that?

At the risk of beating a dead horse, domestic C is not "unique" to UA.

I suppose that you can argue that the occasional CO 757 with BF is the same as UA C. But looking at their schedule, there don't seem to be that many of them running domestic routes. Re DL, I could only find 1 domestic flight with 757 BE and no international 767s, but I only checked JFK/ATL to LAX/SFO. So I'm not sure that I agree with your premise.

I do agree that UA does a poor job of selling domestic F. CO is the master of this. Of course, it helps selling ex-EWR instead of ex-IAD or ORD. I do think better F pricing could bring in more revenue. Then again, if UA actually did this, there would be a 500 post thread here complaining that there is no availability to upgrade, etc. The facts are that most domestic C seats are filled with upgraders at average fare levels that cannot support international C service.

I'm not happy about this change and it will affect me personally. But the domestic C seat is still one of the best things out there. And I value the miles that I earn (and the dozens of free trips that I have taken in international C/F) enough that I will stick with UA. If I were paying out of pocket for C, VX might be tempting, but then I would also have to pay out of pocket for my LH C IAD-VCE next summer.

These change just underline the very difficult financial situation that UA finds itself in. Many of their wounds are self-inflicted, but many are not. They must make changes -- I haven't heard any other alternative offered here except the usual fantasy musings that somehow high fare passengers will fall from the sky (metaphorically, not physically;) ) Personally, I thought that UA would use the premium cabin makeover to remove F from some/all of their fleet but was not surprised to see the cabins decreasing in size. Fortunately, E+ doesn't appear to be at risk. But there will be difficult decisions made at all airlines if oil does not fall unless fares increase dramatically.

Yes, but only two people wearing stripes on their sleeves get to sit there...

"[passengers] are willing to pay for snacks of higher value"
 

Some pax may show they are willing to pay for "snacks of higher value" by buying a ticket on Jetblue or Southwest.

Booked a ticket for my Mom's boyfriend last week and after seeing the thread, I looked at it online:

Dec 18th, BRU-IAD: Food for purchase, Food for purchase

Jan 1, IAD-BRU: Dinner, Snack


So maybe it is just a 4th quarter test?

No, Im arguing that American Flagship, three class service out of JFK and MIA to the west coast has a business class. And it really isnt subject to argument. It is sold as three class and serviced as three class. Complete with first class international lounge access (a VASTLY better IF than UA has at JFK by the way) for paid first.

No question these upcoming changes are disappointing but I think you have just outlined the two realities that are often blurred and are difficult to reconcile for many of us. Most of us will absolutely not pay the current C prices (posts after posts about this fact), but we still want our upgrades to clear along with not only a better seat, but complimentary services and amenities.

Indeed, everything is temporary ('only for now' ;)), but still hoping this 'test' will have the same fate.

I jump to that conclusion because I really can't figure out the rhyme or reason behind anything United is doing nowadays. Even allowing (even though it's not true) that Domestic C is unique to UA, and agreeing that they're trying to figure out whether the seat or the food is more important, if they DO decide that the seat is more important, the feedback here suggests that most people would be upset with the service in C, and choose 2 class F. How, then, do they fill domestic C if customers choose routes specifically to fly in 2 class F? More importantly, how do they continue to charge as much, if not more, for domestic C when compared to 2 class F?

If the seat is found to be more important, why not use the same logic with 2 class F? And make 3 class F your only real F product domestically?

Either United has to lower the price of domestic C tickets, or they can blur the distinction between three class C and two class F. And given that they are willing to distinguish their ex-IAD international product in the face of competition from foreign carriers, I'm not convinced that they wouldn't do the same with domestic F. Especially if they decide (with their bean counters and pre-pubescent consultants) that this first "trial" is a success. If there's one thing United has shown, it is the ability to spin data to suit their purposes.

Maybe Tilton should run for president. :eek:

Latest News and press releases from United Airlines
 

Latest News and press releases from United Airlines:

1) To compete with the increasing competition from carriers from overseas that are improving their services in economy, business and first class, United Airlines today announced it will eliminate food services in business and coach classes.

UA media representative stated: Management has decided that in response to our most recent studies United will lead the way with a progressive new program for our passengers: : Fly Light and Fly Right. United's Fly Light and Fly Right campaign will consist of a healthy choice for business and coach passengers: FASTING. United Board of directors has decided that most people are too fat anyway and by the eliminating food and alcoholic beverages on domestic and international flights United is doing its part to reduce our Carbon footprint: “hauling skinner people will use less fuel..”
A quote from an unnamed manager at UA: Folks at the UA maintenance base in SFO were also pleased with the announcement. “We won’t have to spend so much time fixing the broken toilets, passengers won’t need them.”

2) United Airlines Pilots Union Master council proclaimed it was fed up with having to work. The Association president stated: flying unhappy passengers all day long is fatiguing our pilots, our members need more rest.
It is a danger to Fly if we are tired, or if we are disrespected by management, flight attendants, attorneys, interior decorators, TSA smucks, mechanics or our ex wives. We need to be respected by our passengers.

The Masters council also stated they would expose to the world the junk United pilot union members are forced to fly under pain of overtime:

We plan on gaining the respect of our passengers by demonstrating our skill flying defective, ill maintained, aircraft. We will try to fly as best as we can for the little pay we receive. Passengers will see how valuable we are to them and their family. We will let the passengers know we are heroes and worth our pay by flying this old junk. If on the other hand we need a lunch break or if we are “dissed” we can blame the aircraft. The more aircraft we can put on the ground the more we can rest.
.
In a side note a pilot ‘s union steward disclosed that United airlines could have a fleet of new fuel efficient aircraft if the Management of United did not agree to big wage increases in the past and if management was just left to the pilots.

In other news: The Masters Council has notified its members not to turn on channel 9. Stating” they had a grievance that was filed against one flight crew, stating while listening on channel 9 the passenger heard snoring.” Therefore no channel 9.

The master council’s master pilot stated for the record: “Channel 9 is an intrusion into the tabernacle of the cockpit, as elected custodians of the cockpit society we must maintain the sanctity of our pilot rituals, and also avoid terrorist eavesdropping.”

Members were also reminded not to wear their hats in the terminal, this is protest against Management: pilots are just as smart as management, we do not have blond hair. We just aren’t respected. We are smart too.

3) The United flight council of flight attendents today issued a press statement:

We are on the Aircraft Primary for Passengers Safety.
Anything more than that we do as a favor to passengers.

We have solidarity with management on the Fly Light or Fly Right program. We believe passenger air rage will decrease if passengers have no food and water. Unruly passengers will be too weak to cause trouble.

We support management’s decision to take the burden of service from our already stressful safety duties and allow more time for our members rest.

An unnamed source in the Union disclosed: “we will still be able to eat in the Employee section of the Aircraft, Section A. Most of the passengers who used to sit there went to BA or some other airline, which is ok with us they were so much trouble. Now we are able to chat with the non flying pilots and the family of the crews without complaints from other passengers up front.”

4) Today Bank of Dubai, the largest holder of United airlines loans announced United airlines will cease operations: All assets of United airlines will be sold in liquidation.

Employee groups were shocked by the announcement, Union leaders declined comment.


The employee groups are preparing their response to this sudden development.

We want to know why? We did not see it coming. How unfair It will not be the same without our jobs. Were some of the sentiments overheard as employees reported to work.

Leadership will find out who is to blame for this disaster!

Honestly, I can think of many solutions, but most of them require capital investment that United is just not capable of securing. That's what worries me more than anything. This does echo Pan Am and TWA, in that everything that UA is doing provides short term relief while compromising the long term health of the airline. That's also why I'm burning my miles, and moving my accrual over to BMI. Of course, I'm moving abroad as well, so this decision doubly makes sense for me. I'm selfish, but I don't want to see my hard-earned miles disappear, especially since I pay for my own flights.

Hindsight is great. Looking back, I would probably have taken the money that United is using to update international C and F, and put it into making over the domestic fleet. Maybe deal with capacity reduction by replacing E- with E+ throughout Y. Then you can market it as a true enhancement, and also justify fare increases. The perception of United would be better if they did something like this. And seeing how PS is lucrative, wouldn't this have made sense? For the international fleet, upgrading the soft product would have been an interim fix until they could afford the hard product update. As it is, we're more upset about their inability to roll out the new int'l C and F than happy about the actual benefits they provide.

I know that the real money comes in from international routes, but creating goodwill domestically would have been invaluable to United. Instead, they're destroying any loyalty that I feel towards them. And again, if United looked as if they were trying to upgrade services, wouldn't we be more patient? If they set up a timetable to make domestic Y all E+, wouldn't we be ecstatic? If we knew that they were improving the international soft product as a preliminary step to working on the hard product, wouldn't we be more understanding?

Looking back, I would have fired Tilton two years ago. :) But, as I said, hindsight is 20/20.