woolfson

First time poster, long time reader.

My family was booked SFO with confirmed seats. SFO --> FRA on 06/17/2008;

We were denied boarding, we were paid $1092.00 cash in the airport, and told to sue for the rest.

However, it got even weirder when we started to serve subpoena's to individuals at the airport and to staff of the Airline.

The lawsuit will be heard on August 11th, in San Francisco Superior Court Small Claims Division. A brief summary [edited by moderator] can be found below.

I'm not sure if there's anyone here who has successfully sued the airlines for abusive activies and breaking the law, but here is my lawsuit... I would be interested in knowing if anyone else was successful in this.

[Deleted by moderator]

Anyone here who would like to contribute their thoughts would be greatly appreciated, negative or positive.

Thanks
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Background: On 06/17/2008, [passengers] arrived on time to SFO International for flights bound to Frankfurt.

Facts: United Airlines refused boarding based upon "no seat availability", despite having provided [ticketed psgrs.] with Seats during reservation and confirmation process.

[United's] manager on duty, denied compensation, stating that we would have to take whatever he offered, and if we protested, we would "be arrested". We were given tickets on Air France Flight 83, as an alternative, per United Airlines, which were were also forced involuntarily boarding denial. Air France stated, "we told them that we had no seats; we are not sure why they sent you here, we do not have seats for you".

[Manager] called the police to have us escorted out of the airport; the police refused to remove us from the airport. [Edited] We were then offered partial compensation of $1092.00 by [the manager] AND flight on next day - stating that "we would have to go to court to get the rest."

Per EU rules (EC) 261/2004 " airlines flying into the EU from non-EU locations must compensate 600€ statutory damages for each passenger denied boarding on flights over 3500 km and delay is over 4 hours, if passengers were at airport on time and had confirmed seats." --- United's Contract for Carriage explicitly states that "no passenger shall be denied boarding until all options for seeking volunteers have been exhausted".

Jurisdiction: United States and European Community are ratifying members of the Montreal Convention which governs the inter-airline code-sharing arrangements; The Montreal Protocol states that airlines may be sued in jurisdiction of (a) where the passenger begins travel, (b) where the passenger ends travel, (c) where the traveller resides, or (d) in the courts of the United States. These conditions have been met.

Total Damages Requested: $4,857.29 = Statutory Compensation (see Excel Sheet) ; per EU regulations and United Airlines Contract for Carriage, Involuntary Denied Boarding Rules.

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SAN 1K

Are you an attorney who has prepared these documents yourself, or have you incurred legal costs?
On which flight(s) did you eventually travel?

jhayes_1780

This is a really bad place to ask for this kind of advice.... FYI UA management/employees monitor this thread.

In an unrelated thread, a hotel used FT forum comments against a member during litigation.

If you really want to press this consult a local attorney.

Sunnyhere

Wow! On FT, people spend a lot of time threatening to sue, this may be the first time anyone has put their money where their mouth is.

grayland

I agree that the OP should consider deleting his post. UA employees and legal department monitor FT and will find someway to use it against the OP in any legal proceedings.

RichardInSF

I don't think some kind of UA retribution for posting here is the problem at all. Based on my very limited experience, I think the real problem is getting a serious hearing against a large corporation in small claims court.

Your case will likely not even be in front of a judge, but a lawyer deputized to act as a judge. The airline will send someone who will claim what happened is "normal operating procedure," and the "judge" --who will be bored to tears -- will not render a decision on the spot in order to avoid the risk of you taking physical action when you hear that you lose.

A few days later, you will get something in the mail telling you that your claim has been rejected. You cannot appeal a decision that you filed against someone in small claims court, so it's over.

I hope it doesn't turn out that way, but it easily can.

Remember when Judge Wapner, the original TV judge, started each case with the statement, "I have read your complaint and...." When I heard that, I immediately knew it was fiction. Real judges in small claims court don't waste any time on preparation! If you really want justice, you'll have to pay an attorney (or do a lot of personal work) to take your case to a real court.

Hope I'm wrong but prepare for the worst!

notquiteaff

Welcome to FT!

Maybe it's just me, but the whole thing is a bit confusing. You refer somewhere to being on a code share. Did LH issue the ticket? UA? You ask for compensation for the Air France flight that UA tried to put you on (which apparently didn't work out). I have never been to small claims court, but I think it would help to have a very easy to understand case. Citing international treaties and EU regulations doesn't seem in line with that.

Out of curiosity, how did the whole story end? Did you fly the next day? Did you look into claiming IDB compensation based on US regulations?

soitgoes

EC 261/2004 does not apply to UA flights from the US to Europe. It applies to UA flights only when departing from Europe. Only for EU carriers does the regulation apply for flights from the US to Europe.

6rugrats

OP - are you kidding?

Having been to Small Claims Court many times in CA, I don't think you will win, based on what you posted, especially because apparently you are not citing correct law. If you lose, you cannot refile. Even if you did win, UA can file an appeal, and that will bump it up to Superior Court. Big mess then.

If you received money and were placed on a flight, what was the problem? How did UA break the law? Sounds as if they followed it. You are just angry - which I understand, but it sounds as if things got rather out-of-control if the police were called. Makes me think the "abusive behavior" was not one-sided.

I don't know what's been edited out of your original post, but exactly what do you mean by "arrived on time"? It is hard for me to believe that out of the blue the "manager on duty" threatened to have you arrested. What's missing from this story?

IMO, drop your case and move along. It appears you really have no legal basis to sue. Suing people is not all it's cracked up to be. If you have no experience with the US legal system, it's a real eye opener, even just in SCC.

KosherKimchee

Maybe you should have gotten your damages above the small claims level and then noticed a deposition of Tilton. Could have turned into an interesting flyertalk q&a.

wharvey

I am amazed that a case could get filed and heard in CA Small Claims in less than 2 months... that is amazing.

At a minimum, I have to ask: What LAWS did United break? They are not bound by the EU laws when leaving from the US.

The compensation that UA gave you. What was the cost of the initial tickets? And what was the compensation for?

soitgoes

I just pulled up your filing at the SF courts website.
You are requesting 600€ payments for each of three passengers for both the UA flight (definitely doesn't apply) and for the AF flight (possibly would apply, but you are suing UA and not AF, so why do you have that listed here)?

You should be focusing here on the DOT regulations:
Twice your one-way fare, up to a maximum of $800 per passenger.
http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/publi...tm#overbooking

If you have a claim against Air France, you should file that with AF or one of the European regulatory bodies (in this case, in Germany or France).

6rugrats

OP - your court filing was easy to find and I advise you to delete your post as way too much personal information is obtained.

Agree with previous poster, you can't ask for AF damages, and you will never receive any money for parking, meals, or train reticketing charges.

Although mentioned in your first post, I see no damages claimed for "abusive behavior". You keep referring to "we". Were you also booked on this flight?

After reading, you will not win, as you are citing law that does not apply. UA is not an EU airline. It will be dismissed after the attorney acting as a judge reads up on the case law.

SAT Lawyer

Another FlyerTalker was able to successful sue and recover a judgment in California small claims court arising from the handling of the Priceline/La Quinta mistake. See, e.g., here and here.

As for the recommendation by several to not post information about a pending lawsuit and discuss the facts and circumstances of that lawsuit, I concur. Anything that is posted here is discoverable, and any admissions that undermine the plaintiff's claims will likely be used against him at the time of trial. In fact, given that this lawsuit will almost certainly include breach of contract allegations for which attorney's fees are generally recoverable, the original poster may wish to consult with an attorney and see if he can find one to take the case on a contingency basis.

tom911

A California judge/commissioner is not going to enforce a law from another country. Have you researched compensation for being "involuntarily denied boarding"?

UA's web site/contract of carriage does not spell out compensation for being involuntarily denied boarding. but it does direct you to where that information is available. I see another poster has provided a link to the DOT site with compensation info.