blueman2

UA employees who post on this board walk a fine line. They do not formally represent the company (they of course put in disclaimers that their views are personal and do not necessarily reflect the views of UA), but they do impact our views of UA. Because of that, I know that some of the UA employees who post here have had their hands slapped by UA for some of their comments which were less than complimentary to their employer. We may be approaching a time when UA employees may be discouraged by UA from posting here. I have heard from 2 members here that they have gotten some pressure in this regard. The question is: are these UA employees doing good for UA or are they hurting UA. (I think we ALL agree they are doing good for the forum, but let’s put ourselves in UA management’s shoes for a while and see if they are helping UA). My emphatic belief is that they are doing a world of good for UA. Here is why I believe they are doing good.

Clearly, a lot of posts on this board are very negative against UAs product. A lot of us come here to vent. Members of this forum who are UA employees sometimes chime in to agree with the posters’ view, or otherwise comment on what might be really going on with UA that causes the perceived problems. So UA might conclude this board is harming their reputation, and that having employees participate in such ‘venting’ harms their reputation even further. I mean it is one thing for a customer to say UA screwed up, but for an employee to also say that in response to a customer complaint is REALLY bad for UA right? I say not. First, regardless of employee participation on this board, negative and ‘venting’ posts help UA. It is better for customers to be able to vent their frustrations than to keep it bottled in. It enables them to talk it through with other members. It may seem like we are fanning the flames and just getting more irate as we post, but in reality the venting allows us to get it off our chests and be in a better position to face our next travel challenge with UA. Now, as far as the impact of employees participating, this further helps UA. Why? A lot of studies have shown that customers will actually increase their loyalty to a vendor when a problem arises if they feel the vendor listens to their complaints and takes them seriously. Even if no action is taken, just being listened to makes the customer feel better.

If this is true (that listening to customer complaints helps with loyalty), then it is important to know what does it take for a vendor to show they have listened? The studies have shown two things are key:
1) Timely reply. If a vendor does not reply quickly, it indicates they do not care. This will make the customer even more upset.
2) Show empathy. The vendor should show they have heard the customer by repeating the issues and confirming that the complaint has some validity. Make the customer feel you are on THEIR side. The WORST thing a vendor can do is be defensive and try to show why the complaint is wrong. This will do much more harm than good, even if the vendor is right!

So what is the impact of having UA employees participate on this board? I think their posts on this board increase our loyalty to UA because they help meet the 2 criteria above. They provide timely input simply by being a participant of this forum. Also, they help show empathy. Most of the employees who post here take our complaints seriously. There are a few exceptions, but most are non-defensive and very balanced and helpful in their posts. Even when a poster may be wrong or mistaken regarding the basis for their complaint, most of the UA employees on this board show that they have listened and have done their best to put themselves in the poster’s shoes. Sometimes, this even means agreeing that UA screwed up or that UA’s product is poor in some regards. If, on the other hand, their replies are defensive or just tow the UA party lines, then for sure they do more harm than good.

Let me take for example Goes2Oz’s recent post on the thread (post #92 on HERE). I am with the OP on this thread that UA’s F product is poor. I have made several posts myself making exactly the same points. It really upsets me. But Goes2Oz’s response is interesting to read. She agreed with the poster that the ‘breakfast stinks’ and the soup is ‘terrible’. Clearly, this disparaged UA and, coming from an FA, is damaging UA’s reputation. Right? Well, not so fast. For me, her response gives her credibility and makes me feel she has listened. If she had said anything else, I might have written her off. But her candor made me feel she is listening and cares. Actually, I personally like the soup she refers to! But because she was willing to show that she was not just ignoring the OP’s complaint, not being defensive, and not just towing the UA party line, she has credibility with me. Because of this, I then paid more attention to her other balanced comments about ‘over familiarity’ and how sometimes what comes across as negative by a customer is really just a misunderstanding or cultural disconnect. Or how my view of FA’s disappearing during flight (I too have this same complaint quite often) may actually be just a wrong interpretation of the FAs trying not to intrude on our sleep (OK, maybe a stretch, but I bet this sometimes is the case). Of course, some FAs are just terrible and there is no excuse to be given, but it does make me more willing to give FAs a benefit of a doubt. In any case, her posts here, and employee posts elsewhere, make me feel a bit better about UA. Even when, and perhaps especially when, the employees say negative things about their employer. I feel better because a UA employee listened, empathized, and provided a thoughtful reply. For me, that translates into a better view of UA as a whole.

I hope UA managers will see the same. And I hope UA employees continue to post here in an open, honest, and non-defensive manner. It benefits the forum, and it benefits UA.

UnitedSkies

Thanks for your post.

As an ex-employee of United, I can say that I did not formally get reprimanded or warned by UA against posting, even though I'm clearly one of the more frequent posters.

Of course, few if any of my posts were very critical of UA, for good reason. Hence, I had also been criticized by some here for being a cheerleader.

Cheerleader or not, it is indeed difficult to post knowing there are many watching.

This is why I've always been a strong advocate of UA dedicating someone like StarwoodLurker or CO Insider to the forum to be the face of the airline, but alas, this idea, which I proposed several times to management leaders, was shot down for a variety of reasons which I will not go into. I still firmly believe that UA is missing the boat by using a great 21st century medium to have better relations with its customers. But I also realize that it is a tall promise to keep - and if there is to be an official presence, dedicated and frequent and non-BS updates are needed, and anything short of that would be doing more harm than good.

UnitedF1RST

I strongly agree with OP's opinion on this matter. With someone at UA listening and communicating, it boosts the company's image.

Fredd

I too agree with the OP and appreciate the fact that some UA employees are committed sufficiently to spend time here and to offer their perspective. I think you hit the nail on the head that any official "UA Lurker" would have a major assignment and management would have to back it up and ideally allow the individual to function as a true ombudsman.

In closing, Mrs. Fredd and I extend belated but sincere best wishes to you UnitedSkies.

UnitedSkies

Thank you.

And I think it's a combination of the inability to see the value of such a position/role, or a fear of failing, plus a relatively conservative culture that has prevented UA from officially appointing a voice.

ryan182

Whoa, so you actually spoke with two people who were reprimanded or otherwise got in some sort of trouble for their participation here??

Well that's just plane (pun intended) stupid, shortsighted and doesn't UA management have some bigger fish to fry? I'd say I sometime (often maybe even?) see the "evil suits" POV but this is beyond the pale.

Look at Starwood Lurkers I and II (yes the get two!) in the Starwood forum, most everyone has nothing but positive things to say about how they are able to help out and I can't imagine it does anything but good for brand loyalty. The fact that UA has chosen not to follow *wood and others is one thing, but to then penalize their employee's who do participate on their own time is really bad and its not like if they agree the soup is bad or that calzone thing (ughhh when does that die?) is horrid they are sharing any sort of a state secret.

blueman2

I want to be careful not to overplay the issue of UA management squelching employee participation here. It appears to be pretty limited to just a few cases. Hopefully this is not a wide issue (and will not become one). But I wanted to make sure UA management realizes the value that employee participation here adds to UA's reputation.

warreng24

All I can say is that the "unofficial" UA folks in this forum help to provide factual evidence to all the stuff we post here. This helps to dispel mis-information.

My personal thanks to all the UA folks who post here.

glex50

Before anything, I'll say that if an employee chimes in and says that she agrees the food is poor quality in UA F, and it comes as news to management, it's not the employee who should be scolded. What's more, I value the insight of the employees who post here, and it helps to understand the point of view of the person behind the counter.

However....I can understand why the company would be upset about employees posting here.

I think that here in the UA forum, the employees who choose to post are generally respectful and moderated in their viewpoints. They're able to read into a situation and understand the different points of view, expressed or not.

The trouble is, management at the company doesn't necessarily know that, and it's entirely possible for a situation escalate on these forums that would result in bad PR for the airline, through no fault of the employee.

It's also possible for some less respectful and less moderated employees to begin posting, and result in bad PR for the airline as a direct result of their actions. We don't generally consider this possibility, and this is not typical of the FA's and CSRs who post, but there was a recent thread on the US forum in which a "vent" by a passenger about FA's resulted in a similar "vent" by a lurking FA about elite passengers. Suffice it to say that the resulting posts did not reflect well on US.

Anyone in UA PR would look at that incident and become nervous that it could occur with a UA employee on one of these forums. I can't recall seeing it happen (and doubt that with our general mix, it would) but that doesn't mean it's impossible, and from the company's point of view, it's a liability.

That said, I do agree that it seems odd that UA has never attempted officially to reach out to this forum, but I can understand the reasoning.

MJonTravel

UnitedSkies,

I've been away from the boards for a while and had no idea you had left United. Good luck to you in your new life. I think you've been a great asset to the board....and hope you will continue to stick around.

UnitedSkies

Thanks - tell that to United though.

But seriously, thanks. I expect my next step to be even more fun than the years I spent at United.

bhmlurker

I can see employee posting being a liability for a corporation like McDonald's. As we speak, people have a clear expectation of what McDonald's is and what it isn't. Most people probably think it delivers exactly what it advertises, and are content with receiving what they paid for. In this case, employee talking down on his/her own company may actually start something, and this kind of activity should be curtailed.

In the case of United, the complaint or discontent is already on-going. People are already annoyed at how bad the service is, and most people already accept it on Y tix. However when one buys C or F tix and continue to receive poor service, which at the same time is advertised as globally competitive and all wonderful, one can't help but think of false advertisement.

What is worse is that this likely occurs day in and day out. I would not be surprised if people already spread news to their friends and coworkers about how poor UA's service is. In this case, the employees aren't telling us what we didn't already know; they can't make us complain more about UA. As OP said, a company rep or employee empathizing is often the most important component in placating a customer. Sadly, this is also what UA is the worst at delivering, the exception being the employees here who participate on an unofficial level. As a side note, much as I think it'd be nice to have an official presence, the unofficial counterpart I believe has a more "honest" and less "company line" feel.

I sincerely hope UA's customer relations people consider carefully, before rashly deciding to rein in employees. It'd do minimal good while at the same time increasing more angst amongst the frequent flier base, which I do not need to remind UA, is something it can't afford to lose in this economic climate.

jsgoldbe

Oh no ... now that you are an EX-employee please DO go into the reasons! ^^

Back to the OP, I feel like those entities that do not expend the resources to put a representative (like the Starwood Lurkers) in these forums are taking the position that they would rather not have us around. Clearly, UA sees many of the discussion taking place here as having a net negative affect on the bottom line (MR-ing, fare mistakes, coupon connection, taking over-advantage of promotions/rules, etc.). Additionally, UA management does not have a good relationship with their employees, and probably does not close customer interaction with employees outside of the business environment as a good thing.

While the thinking behind the OP's post may be well-reasoned, for the above reasons, I do not see UA (in its current mindset) viewing this forum as beneficial to UA. Too bad, IMHO.

planemechanic

As a UA employee who offers my strictly personal opinions on here, it was disconcerting to hear that one of my posts was cut and pasted into an internal email cautioning people about unauthorized releases of internal information. Particularly when that particular post was not very revealing.

I think, for me, it comes down to the desire to help others understand how complicated issues can be and how many of us really do want to be the #1 choice of airlines. I try to share what I can, when I can, without divulging company secrets, I think I have been successful. If someone else in management disagrees I guess I will deal with them when that time comes.

I like to stay in touch with what you, our best customers and toughest critics, have to say and to keep in touch with the ideas you have to make things better.

I have often told my co-workers that people who complain are the a valuable resource, if you can resolve their complaints that can be retained as customers. It is the ones who have stopped complaining that we should worry about, they have given up on us. Only people who really care complain loudly. We should listen to them and listen closely.

I am sorry to here that UnitedSkies is no longer working with us, good luck on the future.

Pegasus23

Pretending, as in: [[ let’s put ourselves in UA management’s shoes for a while and see if they are helping UA). ]] "They, UA personnel, that Flyertalk" lack the complexity of the components of understanding the many facets that go into each decision UA management makes at top levels. By not providing an official online presence within Flyertalk , UA continues to foster mystery. Mystery has power if used properly; if not, mystery slips into control, resentment, and lack of support by employees & customers.

While access revels mystery. UA is in business to make money, not be the Sherlock Holmes of the airline business.

Therefore providing more access...could be another area for a fee [s] as in make a real movie of how to struggle along...show the real UA with all it's warts and wonder. Charge millions to gain this access.

See where pretending could go....or lets pretend all United Employees show up for work tomorrow Happy!

This forum might not have as many posts!