I am United Premier and I need to book a trip to ATH from SFO. I was thinking that I can get with UA SFO-FRA on E+ on H upgradeable fare and then LH or A3 to ATH, but the connections are horrible, at least 3+ hours.

So i am looking at an alternative Itin SFO-MUC-ATH on Lufthansa metal, much shorter connections, again on H fare (same cost more or less to UA H via FRA)

I am booking H just in case LH might offer me an upgrade, although all previous times I have taken the SFO-MUC I have not been successful.

The LH flights via MUC save approx. 3-4 hours from the whole trip both outbound and inbound and frankly when compared to the little more comfort that E+ offers getting to my destination quicker has its advantages.

Does anyone know if LH will have the new Econ seats with the entertainment system on the A340-600 from SFO-MUC in late Oct 2008? When I took that flight back in 2004 and 2005 the seats were the most uncomfortable long haul economy seats I have ever sat on. They made those 11+ hrs very loooong.

Thanks for all the feedback
--e

I much prefer UA E+ over LH Y. As for upgrades on LH, its much more difficult as you need to get a paper certificate, it won't cover the entire trip (just the one leg), and won't happen until the day of. In addition, I think you can only upgrade Y/B fares on LH and still need 30k miles. On UA you at least have a chance of confirming/clearing your upgrade in advance and can do it with a lower fare bucket.

Yes, the LH seats rival AC economy seats for the worst long haul experience - thankfully I fly LH longhaul in C or F!

But to my mind the connection in MUC is a big positive over connecting in FRA. I don't know if it is worth for me personally for the 11 hours in LH Y, but does factor heavily in my decision making.

and my user name has nothing to do with that preference, MUC is truly easier than FRA for connecting, and a wonderful airport

If you're 2P, I'm guessing you don't have any SWUs. So you can only upgrade using miles, which will cost you 30k each way on an H fare. I consider that a pretty bad deal, given that a saver R/T in C runs 80k miles.

If you don't pay up the miles you'll be stuck in coach. In that case, UA E+ is a much better choice than LH Y. On the other hand, MUC is a really nice airport. So if you're willing to spend 11h with less legroom, flying UA one way and LH the other might be another solution.

LH also has much better (and free!) beer though

I don't consider 3-4 hour international connections to be "horrible" by any stretch of the imagination. On the contrary, on connecting international flights I frequently prefer a connection of a few hours to minimize the chance of misconnecting. If that happens, having to wait a few hours doesn't seem so bad when compared to having to wait until the next day.

I'd easily take the E+ (with possible upgrade) vs. being stuck in LH Y (with possible missconnection).

Yes, but MUC is a perfect airport for short connections, no need for 3-4 hour waiting, and unlike UA, LH arrives mostly on time. It's enough to compare punctuality records for any route operated by both airlines. For instance, UA906 from ORD to MUC has the 73% on-time record; LH435-96% on the same route, even though the flight time on LH is 15 minutes shorter than on UA. All A340-600 aircraft are equipped with the entertainment system.

I've taken LH economy several times connecting in MUC from GRU (11+ hours). I find the seats comfortable, the in-flight entertainment very good, the service excellent, the aircraft clean, and the connections well timed and easy to make.

As long as you are not taller than 6"1' feet you should be able to sit in LH Y. IF you are taller everything else but the exit rows will be uncomfortable. So if you are very tall E+ is way better. On the other hand I prefer the service at LH and since the A340-600 has the new AVOD in Y in-flight entertainment is as good as with most other airlines in Y.

Anyway forget free upgrades at LH. There are no free upgrades at LH. Unlike US carriers LH protects their Business and First Class cabin. If you want to be upgraded you have to pay cash or with miles.

Not true...when the electronic *A upgrades were available, Y/B were the only upgradeable economy classes. However, you can still use paper mileage vouchers for 30,000 miles, or a SWU, that are good in YBMH.

2 cents from someone who has flow LH Y 20 + times in the last year or so...

Go with United if you can. If you can't, ask for an exit row at check in (get there early). Also, you can check in by phone and lh.com is much better about online check is as well.

If you are medium to large, I recommend middle aisles - check the seatmaps online. LH doesn't block them, but I have very good luck getting an open seat next to me if I book 33G or something similar on a 340. The window aisle on most LH planes has no foot room and always feels cramped to me.

On the 3 5 3 configuration, middle aisle is still the ticket IMO. LH Y has 0 leg room and your best bet is an open seat to your left or right. I would also recommend that the first thing you do is put the inflight magazine and other miscellaneous items in the overhead bin, since this will give you knees much more room.

All that said, good airline - great food, free booze, etc. Inflight entertainment is a bit lacking, but I'm guessing you will want to sleep for the first 3-4 hours of the flight.

One other trick - get a special meal and they won't mind if you sleep through the meal service and want it later. This is harder with standard meals in my experience.

Enjoy!

OK decision made: just bought my ticket, UA/A3 SFO-FRA-ATH-FRA-SFO, 3 hr connection time for both inbound and outbound, United operates w/ 777 those flights i was able to get the 17A both ways which according to seatguru should give me lots of legroom so i opted to buy cheapest non upgradeable and save miles for a business class award ticket SFO-NBO later in the year. Thank you all for the advice. It helped me make up my mind against LH Econ

Interestingly enough I am on a LH ticket for this itin even if non of the legs are operated by LH, one of the A3 flights is marketed as LH and the other is not, I am curious if I'll be getting any miles for those flights, although according to the mileage plus rules it might be unlikely....

This was a good choice. Friends don't let friends fly LH long-haul economy.

Well done! ^ Seat 17A on the 777 is one of the best coach seats in UA's entire fleet, with nearly as much leg room as the 777's business-class seats but with nobody reclining in front of you. I think you will be very happy with your choice.

LH Y, especially for a route as long as SFO-MUC, is pretty difficult. That said, the service and the condition of the aircraft is a lot better than UA. Free booze! and the food has been reasonable.

I'd choose E+, actually, those extra inches are a major step up in comfort, and if you're lucky enough to get those front rows on the 777 or the exit rows on the 747, it's a very tolerable journey.

Their new A340's are very nice. Recliner seats, touch screen video on demand. And the service along with free booze is better on LH. I am not a very tall person, i would personally do LH.