AndyFlyer

UA/EK RTW S ex-BKK First Class -
ROUTING ASSISTANCE REQUESTED

I am hoping someone will be able to offer a bit of routing assistance with an upcoming trip I am trying to book using EK/UA RTW SOUTH ex-BANGKOK in First Class. I have been in touch with both Emirates and United, who seem to be following slightly different rules, and are confusing my travel agent in Bangkok! Since many of you regularly travel on similar tickets and are familiar with the rules, can anybody kindly advise on the following itinerary, please?

BKK-DXB-DOH (stopover)
DOH-DXB-COK (stopover)
COK-DXB-LON (stopover)
LON-IAD-SAV (stopover)
SAV-ORD-SAT (stopover)
SAT-DEN (stopover)
DEN-LAX-HNL (stopover)
HNL-LAX (paid backtrack)
LAX-MEL (stopover)
MEL-AKL (stopover)
AKL-SIN (stopover)
SIN-HKG (stopover)
HKG-BKK (end)

Points of concern:
I have copies of rules provided by my travel agent in BKK. However, I am not sure they are the most up-to-date.

1. Emirates have questioned my HNL ticket, as they are saying this is not North America. IATA seems to think it is. And the rules do not have a side trip to Hawaii on offer (like they do to ANC, MEX, etc.). They do mention being able to buy addition segments for $100 for travel within Hawaii (OGG, etc.);
2. I spoke with United, who are following the EK line, but they refused point blank to give me the rules - which raises more points in my mind (are they hiding something?);
3. Emirates also don't think I can do SIN-HKG-BKK as this is going up/down a line. However, the rules don't state that the line direction must be maintained between these cities.
4. United was not sure I could take Emirates between MEL and AKL, but Emirates have said it is no problem.

I would be most grateful for your thoughts and assistance on the above!
In all of my travel, I have never seen one airline confer with another airline and their rules prior to having a ticket issued. It is really driving my travel agent crazy!

Looking forward to your replies, and many thanks in advance!

AndyFlyer

AndyFlyer

Lots of people have had a look - nobody can offer any help? Please consider it! Thanks, Andyflyer...

cdsilva

I've taken 4 UA/EK RTW F RTW trips. All 4 have been reserved and bought on UA stock with a UA agent over the phone. Why don't you try either UA or EK direct and avoid the travel agents? You should know where you stand rulewise sooner, and can therefore plan accordingly. All 4 trips have been ex-ORD and cost around $6400 (varies due ot ariport tax).

This fare is the best deal on the planet. If you can't get exactly what you are looking for, don't get upset; simply cut back on whatever legs are giving you trouble and enjoy the rest of the trip.

Beerman92

Check out post #1 in this thread for the rules:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=533015

SFO_FT

BKK-DXB-DOH (stopover)
DOH-DXB-COK (stopover)
COK-DXB-LON (stopover)
you can only transit DXB two times. If you make change one of these to be an official stopover (>24 hrs), you should be OK (i.e., you can do 2 transits and 1 stopover)

DEN-LAX-HNL (stopover)
HNL-LAX (paid backtrack)
LAX-MEL (stopover)
MEL-AKL (stopover)
I think that the MEL-AKL EK flight is not allowed

AKL-SIN (stopover)
SIN-HKG (stopover)
HKG-BKK (end)

Here are the full rules (from EK):


|F RTW ROUND THE WORLD FARES REVISED: 11JUL05 CA/FQTEK
RESPONSIBLE IS: DXBBSEK
RTW2AA RTW EK/UA VIA SP *1/3 *EK*
----------------------------------------------------------------
EMIRATES/UNITED AIRLINES
ROUND THE WORLD ADVANCE PURCHASE FARE
VIA NORTH ATLANTIC AND SOUTH PACIFIC
EFFECTIVE . 23 JUN 2003
***NOT VALID ON DIRECT SERVICES DXB-JFK V.V. OPERATED BY EK***
---------------------------------------------------------------
0. APPLICATION
-----------
FARES APPLY TO FIRST/BUSINESS AND ECONOMY CLASS ROUND THE
WORLD TRAVEL IN A CONTINUOUS GLOBAL DIRECTION EITHER
EASTBOUND OR WESTBOUND.
TRAVEL MUST COMMENCE FROM AND RETURN TO THE SAME COUNTRY
SERVICED BY EK/UA .IN NO INSTANCE MAY THE ITINERARY GO
BEYOND THE POINT OF ORIGIN AND REFLECT TRAVEL GREATER THAN
ROUND THE WORLD.

PASSENGER EXPENSES - NOT PERMITTED.

FARES
------------------------------------------------------------
TRAVEL ORIGINATING CURR. FIRST BUSINESS ECONOMY
IN CLASS CLASS CLASS
------------------------------------------------------------
AUSTRALIA AUD 10163 7670 3519
)
BAHRAIN BHD 2681 2082 1214
BANGLADESH USD 6592 5807 3749
CANADA CAD 10083 7915 4499
EGYPT EGP 25047 15840 11880
FRANCE EUR 7404 5274 3957
GERMANY EUR 7170 5359 3628
HONG KONG HKD 54940 35860 22440
INDIA INR 273050 170920 121275
ITALY EUR 6144 4117 2561
JORDAN JOD 4730 3300 2530
KOREA KRW 5776500 4593800 2897000
KUWAIT KWD 2364 1537 1088
MALDIVES USD 7255 5770 3640
MAURITIUS MUR 160180 142080 80000
MEXICO USD 7255 5770 3640
NEW ZEALAND NZD 11889 7923 5280
OMAN OMR 2578 1788 1337
PAKISTAN USD 6592 5279 3749
QATAR QAR 24390 16910 12640
S.ARABIA SAR 25124 17424 13024
SINGAPORE SGD 12481 9015 6482
SRILANKA USD 7418 5698 3575
SUDAN SDD 1392000 1007360 577500
TAIWAN TWD 185518 147471 93065
THAILAND THB 179080 116890 79860
TURKEY USD 7255 5770 3640
U.A.E. AED 24600 17910 12750
U.K. GBP 5492 3826 2254
U.S.A. USD 7275 5815 3645
B.IN ADDITION TO THE FARES SHOWN ABOVE PASSENGERS MAY
ADD /SIDE TRIPS/ APPLICABLE FOR TRAVEL VIA UA AT CHARGES
SHOWN IN SUB PARAGRAPHS /I/ /II/ AND /III/ BELOW AT USD
CONVERTED TO THE CURRENCY OF COUNTRY OF ORIGIN AT BSR.

I. WHEN TRAVEL VIA UA INCLUDES A POINT IN SAN JUAN THE
/SIDE TRIP/ CHARGE IS
CURRENCY FIRST CLASS BUSINESS CLASS ECONOMY CLASS
----------------------------------------------------
USD 590 472 354
----------------------------------------------------
II. WHEN TRAVEL VIA UA INCLUDES A POINT IN ANCHORAGE/
MEXICO/ GUATEMALA/ EL SALVADOR/ COSTA RICA/ VENEZUELA
THE /SIDE TRIP/ CHARGE IS
CURRENCY FIRST CLASS BUSINESS CLASS ECONOMY CLASS
----------------------------------------------------
USD 714 595 476
----------------------------------------------------
III. WHEN TRAVEL VIA UA INCLUDES A POINT IN BRAZIL/
ARGENTINA/ CHILE AND URUGUAY THE /SIDE TRIP/ CHARGE IS
CURRENCY FIRST CLASS BUSINESS CLASS ECONOMY CLASS
----------------------------------------------------
USD 2024 1547 952
----------------------------------------------------
THE PROHIBITION AGAINST BACKTRACKING/TRANSITING ANY POINT
MORE THAN ONCE IS WAIVED BETWEEN THE FOLLOWING POINTS UPON
PAYMENT OF ANY ADDITIONAL CHARGE AND PROVIDED ONLY SUCH

TRIP IS PERMITTED FOR EACH ROUND THE WORLD JOURNEY.
BETWEEN POINTS BUSINESS ECONOMY
IN N.AMERICA RT RT
LESS THAN 900 MILES CAD 300/USD 225 CAD 225/USD 165
900 MILES OR MORE CAD 400/USD 300 CAD 335/USD 245
NOTE - THE ONE WAY MILEAGE BETWEEN TWO POINTS WILL
DETERMINE THE APPLICABLE ROUND TRIP SIDE TRIP
CHARGE.
C. WHEN TRAVEL ORIGINATES IN A COUNTRY FOR WHICH A SPECIFIED
LOCAL CURRENCY FARE IS PUBLISHED AND THE TICKET IS SOLD IN
ANOTHER COUNTRY THE FARE WILL BE THAT PUBLISHED FOR THE
COUNTRY OF ORIGIN CONVERTED INTO THE CURRENCY OF SALE AT
THE BSR. THE RESULTANT FARE MUST NOT BE LOWER THAN THE
FARE SPECIFIED FROM THE COUNTRY OF SALE.
NOT APPLICABLE FOR SALES MADE OR TRAVEL ORIGINATING IN
CANADA.

|F RTW ROUND THE WORLD FARES REVISED: 04OCT05 CA/FQTEK
RESPONSIBLE IS: DXBBSEK REF: BVAT8F
RTW2BB RTW EK/UA VIA SP *2/3 *EK*
----------------------------------------------------------------
D. TICKETS MUST BE PURCHASED BEFORE COMMENCEMENT OF TRAVEL.
E. IN CASES WHERE THE SAME CLASS OF SERVICE AS THE ONE FOR
WHICH THE PASSENGER HAS PAID IS NOT OFFERED/AVAILABLE
OVER PARTICULAR PORTION OF THE ITINERARY AT THE TIME OF
RESERVATION THE PASSENGER WILL BE BOOKED/ACCOMMODATED IN
THE NEXT OFFERED/AVAILABLE LOWER CLASS OF SERVICE.
NO REFUND WILL APPLY.
EXCEPTION - FOR TRAVEL WITHIN CANADA AND CONTINENTAL USA
INCLUDING HAWAII ON UA WHERE NO BUSINESS CLASS IS
AVAILABLE PASSENGER CAN BE BOOKED AND MAY TRAVEL FIRST
CLASS.
F. TRAVEL MAY ORIGINATE IN ANCHORAGE MEXICO
CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICA PROVIDED THE FARE IS THE
CUMULATIVE OF THE CHARGES SPECIFIED IN FARES PARA AND
SUBPARAS *II. AND *III. ABOVE.
G. TRAVEL MAY ORIGINATE/TERMINATE IN ANY CITY SERVED BY
EK/UA IN SPECIFIED COUNTRIES PROVIDED THAT THE ENTIRE
JOURNEY DOES NOT REFLECT GREATER THAN ROUND THE WORLD
TRAVEL. GREATER THAN ROUND-THE WORLD IS DEFINED AS TRAVEL
TO A POINT BEYOND THE POINT AT WHICH TRAVEL COMMENCED.
EXCEPTION 1 - TRAVEL MAY NOT ORIGINATE IN OR INCLUDE A
POINT IN THE C.I.S.
EXCEPTION 2 - TRAVEL IS NOT PERMITTED VIA NORTH PACIFIC
EXCEPTION 3 - TRAVEL MAY ORIGINATE IN ANCHORAGE/ MEXICO/
)
CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICA PROVIDED THE FARE
IS THE CUMULATIVE OF THE CHARGES SPECIFIED
IN /II/ AND /III/ ABOVE.
EXCEPTION 4 - TRAVEL ORIGINATING / TERMINATING IN SASC
POINTS INCLUDING IN FARES PARA ROUTING VIA
DXB ON EK WITH NO STOPOVER PERMITTED DUE TO
ABSENCE OF DIRECT FLIGHT.

4. FLIGHT APPLICATION / ROUTINGS
-----------------------------
EK FLIGHTS 4350-4353/ 6000-6999/ 201-202/ 406-407/ 412-413
NOT PERMITTED.
UA FLIGHTS 1700-4999/ 8000-9755 NOT PERMITTED.
1. TRAVEL MUST BE IN A CONTINUOUS EASTBOUND OR WESTBOUND
GLOBAL DIRECTION VIA EK/UA SERVICES WITHOUT BACK-
TRACING EXCEPT FOR SIDE TRIPS LISTED BELOW -
BOS/NYC/PHL/WAS/ORL/MIA MAY BE CONSIDERED A STRAIGHT
LINE PROVIDED THE DIRECTION UP OR DOWN THE LINE IS
MAINTAINED.
LAX/PDX/SFO/SAN/SEA/YVR MAY BE CONSIDERED A STRAIGHT LINE
PROVIDED THE DIRECTION UP OR DOWN THE LINE IS MAINTAINED.
2. INTERMEDIATE SURFACE SECTORS MAY BE PERMITTED AT
PASSENGERS OWN EXPENSE PROVIDED ONWARD TRAVEL IS IN THE
SAME GLOBAL DIRECTION. SURFACE IS CONSIDERED A STOPOVER.
3. OSA/TYO CAN BE CONSIDERED A STRAIGHT LINE.
SEL/TPE/MNL CAN BE CONSIDERED A STRAIGHT LINE.
PEK/SHA/SGN/HKG/BKK/SIN CAN BE CONSIDERED
A STRAIGHT LINE.
4. SYD/MEL SYD/AKL MEL/AKL CAN BE CONSIDERED
AS STRAIGHT LINE
5. BACKTRACKING IS WAIVED AND TWO TRANSITS MAY OCCUR IN
CHI WHEN TRAVEL IS VIA UA TO/FROM YYZ.
6. BACKTRACKING IS WAIVED AND TWO TRANSITS MAY OCCUR IN
THE U.S. FOR TRAVEL BETWEEN THE POINTS IN THE U.S.A.
AND POINTS IN SAN JUAN ANCHORAGE GUATEMALA
EL SALVADOR COSTA RICA VENEZUELA BRAZIL ARGENTINA
CHILE AND URUGUAY.
7. FOR ALL ORIGIN POINTS MAXIMUM OF 2 COUPONS ARE PERMITTED
ON A RT/OJ BASIS BETWEEN HNL AND KOA/LIH/OGG VIA UA AT A
CHARGE OF USD 100 FOR 2 COUPONS.
8. BACKTRACKING IS WAIVED AND TWO TRANSIT MAY OCCUR IN DXB
WHEN TRAVEL IS VIA EK TO/FROM DMM/RUH/JED/MCT/DOH/KWI
AMM/BOM/DEL/MAA/COK/HYD/KHI/LHE/PEW/ISB/DAC/MLE/CMB/CAI/
KRT/MRU.

5. RESERVATIONS AND TICKETING
--------------------------
RESERVATIONS FOR FIRST OUTBOUND INTERNATIONAL SECTOR
MUST BE MADE. TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED AND FULL PAYMENT MADE
ATLEAST 7 DAYS PRIOR TO DATE OF DEPARTURE FROM POINT OF
ORGIN. OTHER SECTOR MAY BE BOOKED AT ANY TIME.
EXCEPTION - FOR TRAVEL ORGINATING IN AUSTRALIA
-FIRST AND BUSINESS CLASS PERMITTED AT ANYTIME.
A. FARE BASIS CODES AND BOOKING CLASS SHALL BE AS FOLLOWS
FARE BASIS CODE BOOKING CODE
EK UA EK UA
--------------------------------------
ARWEKUAS ARWUAEKS A A
CRWEKUAS DRWUAEKS C D
KRWEKUAS BRWUAEKS K B
--------------------------------------
B. THE FOLLOWING ENTRY MUST BE MADE ON NEW TICKETS AND
SUBSEQUENT REISSUES IN THE ENDORSEMENT BOX - /VALID
EK/UA ONLY.
C. TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED ON EK/UA TICKET STOCK.
D. FORM OF PAYMENT MUST SHOW /NON-REF APEX/ WHICH MUST BE
CARRIED FORWARD TO ALL REISSUE TICKETS.

. MINIMUM STAY
------------
10 DAYS
. MAXIMUM STAY
------------
1 YEAR

|F RTW ROUND THE WORLD FARES REVISED: 14AUG05 CA/FQTEK
RESPONSIBLE IS: DXBBSEK REF: BJNKBF
RTW2CC RTW EK/UA VIA SP *3/3 *EK*
----------------------------------------------------------------
8. STOPOVERS
---------
MINIMUM - 3
MAXIMUM - UNLIMITED
EXCEPTION 1 - STOPOVERS ARE LIMITED TO ONE PER CITY.
EXCEPTION 2 - MAXIMUM OF 4 STOPOVERS ARE PERMITTED WITHIN
MAINLAND U.S.A./CANADA INCLUDING GATEWAY
POINTS.
A STOPOVER IS DEFINED AS A STAY OF ONE NIGHT OR MORE AT AN
INTERMEDIATE POINT. WHERE THERE IS NO SCHEDULED CONNECTING
DEPARTURE ON THE DATE OF ARRIVAL DEPARTURE ON THE NEXT DAY
WITHIN 24 HOURS OF ARRIVAL SHALL NOT BE CONSIDERED A
STOPOVER.

10. CONSTRUCTIONS AND COMBINATIONS
------------------------------
PERMITTED PROVIDED SEPARATE TICKETS ARE ISSUED.

14. TRAVEL RESTRICTION
------------------
ALL YEAR

16. PENALTIES
---------
PRIOR TO DEPARTURE
A. FULL REFUND WILL APPLY
IF VOLUNTARY CANCELLATION OF ITINERARY IS DONE ATLEAST 7
DAYS BEFORE SCHEDULED DEPARTURE.
IN THE EVENT OF CERTIFIED DEATH OR ILLNESS OF THE
PASSENGER OR A MEMBER OF THE IMMEDIATE FAMILY.
B. PARTIAL REFUND WILL APPLY
IF VOLUNTARY CANCELLATION OF ITINERARY IS LESS THAN 7
DAYS BEFORE SCHEDULED DEPARTURE REFUND THE FARE LESS 25
PERCENT
EXCEPTION 1 - FULL REFUND WILL APPLY IN THE CASE OF DEATH
OR ILLNESS OF PASSENGER AN IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBER OR
ACCOMPANYING PASSENGER AS EVIDENCED BY A MEDICAL OR DEATH
CERTIFICATE.
EXCEPTION 2 - FULL REFUND WILL APPLY IN THE EVENT OF
REFUSAL OF TRAVEL DOCUMENTS OF THE PASSENGER OR
ACCOMPANYING FAMILY MEMBER AS EVIDENCED BY WRITTEN ADVICE
FROM GOVERNMENT AUTHORITIES AND ATTACHED TO THE REFUND
ADVICE.

AFTER DEPARTURE -
REFUND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE FARE PAID AND THAT
APPLICABLE FOR TRANSPORTATION FROM THE POINT OF ORIGIN LESS
25 PERCENT. THE NON-REFUNDABLE PORTION OF THE FARE SHALL NOT
BE USED AS A CREDIT TOWARD THE PURCHASE OF ANY OTHER FARE.
EXCEPTION - THE PENALTY DOES NOT APPLY IN THE CASE OF DEATH
OR ILLNESS OF THE PASSENGER OR AN IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBER
WHEN EVIDENCED BY A MEDICAL OR DEATH CERTIFICATE.

REBOOKING AND REROUTING
A. FOR SECTORS UP TO AND INCLUDING THE FIRST INTER-
CONTINENTAL SECTOR REBOOKING/REROUTING IS NOT PERMITTED
LESS THAN 7 DAYS PRIOR TO THE DATE OF DEPARTURE FROM
POINT OF ORIGIN.
B. REBOOKING
FOR ALL SUBSEQUENT SECTORS PERMITTED WITHOUT CHARGE WHEN
CHANGES DO NOT REQUIRE TICKET REISSUANCE.
C. REROUTING
CHANGES RESULTING IN TICKET REISSUANCE WILL BE PERMITTED
AT A CHARGE OF USD75/GBP50 PER TRANSACTION CONVERTED TO
LOCAL CURRENCY AT THE BSR OF EXCHANGE.
EXCEPTION - INCASE OF CERTIFIED DEATH OF THE PASSENGER
MEMBER OF THE PASSENGER/S IMMEDIATE FAMILY OR
ACCOMPANYING PASSENGERS THE PASSENGER MAY REROUTE THE
REMAINDER OF THE JOURNEY WITHOUT CHARGE.

19. CHILDREN/INFANT DISCOUNTS
--------------------------
CHILDREN 2 YEARS OF AGE BUT UNDER 12YEARS OF AGE 75PCT OF
THE APPLICABLE ADULT FARE.
INFANTS UNDER 2YEARS OF AGE NOT OCCUPYING A SEAT 10PCT OF
THE APPLICABLE ADULT FARE.
INFANTS UNDER 2YEARS OF AGE OCCUPYING A SEAT 75PCT OF THE
APPLICABLE ADULT FARE.
NOTE -
ONLY ONE INFANT NOT OCCUPYING A SEAT MAY ACCOMPANY EACH
PASSENGER 12YEARS OF AGE OR OLDER PAYING THE APPLICABLE

20. TOUR CONDUCTORS DISCOUNT
------------------------
NOT PERMITTED

21. AGENTS DISCOUNTS
----------------
NOT PERMITTED

22. OTHER DISCOUNTS
---------------
CORPORATE DISCOUNTS NOT ALLOWED
PASSENGER EXPENSE EN ROUTE NOT PERMITTED

AndyFlyer

Many, many thanks for all of this! I really appreciate it.

Cheers! Andyflyer

AndyFlyer

Up until now, I've been using OneWorld Explorer fares, but these offer excellent value for money, and seem to be heading to all the places I need to go! Thanks for your feedback!

RTWSTARALLIANCE

If this is any help my EK/UA RTW in F ticketed in BKK has in it- KIX to HNL stop to SFO.

That being said my BKK agent became useless and I am just speaking with UA now. EK was of no use as stock is UA. UA gave me the JFK to HAM routing on EK in F which I guess is not allowed. I just change it to SFO to FRA as I found EK F ok but enjoy the UA First Suite. I have paper and it has been exchanged twice with the agents waiving the change fee both times as it is a pain in the you know what. I found UA to be very good and since I had a bad experience using a BKK agent I am happy to pay more to have ex US. I am glad to know this info in this thread about that.

Kimo

I've flown four RTW ex-BKK in F using the EK/UA fare and have one open now. Two of these have routed through HNL.

Although your itin states that you are going to pay for your own backtrack from HNL to LAX, the RTW routing on this fare does not allow you to fly from any point east of your arrival city (flying westbound and vice versa flying eastbound) unless is has been listed as a straightline city. So flying out of any city east of HNL is not legal. I learned this trying to get an itinerary that included NRT-HNL-open jaw-LIH-LAX. (I would be paying for my own trip to LIH.) Since LIH is west of HNL the LIH-LAX was not legal. I had to buy a RT HNL-LIH-HNL and ended up flying NRT-HNL-LAX

PM me if you want a good TA in BKK who understands RTW itins and rules very well. She has been at the UN travel agency at ESCAP and has handled my RTW trips using *Alliance, UA/EK for many years.

Always Flyin

The girls at UA in BKK understand RTWs just fine as well.

The advantages of booking through UA is that they take credit cards without a surcharge (almost all agencies in Bangkok charge a ~3% surcharge when you use a credit card) and, most importantly, if you want to make a change, you can call UA anywhere in the world to do it. If you use an agent, they send you back to the agency.

jarino

Do they allow two transits + one stopover in DXB? According to the rules that should be allowed, but there are several reports in the EK forum that this is only possible when ticketed through EK.

Always Flyin

The rules on that subject do not say that at all. It is extremely vague.

I posted a response on the EK or Star board (you'll have to search for it if you really care) on the subject a while back. The much better argument is that you are only allowed one connection and one stopover under the terms of the rules.

In any event, my understanding is that EK in Bangkok awoke and no longer books it either. But I am not really sure as I have never tried to book an RTW with two connections and one stopover--only with two connections.

AndyFlyer

Thanks, everyone, for their great posts! I appreciate the assistance. I've just had conversations with both EK and UA in BKK. UA had no problem understanding the two transits/one stopover rule (thus allowing what I have booked) but EK said no, but they came up with the alternative of using my first entry to BKK as the "stopover" and using Arabian Airpass for the side trip to DOH at $170 USD each way in First Class.

The EK agent was helpful, but advised coming in to book the itinerary - UA said they would be happy to help me over the telephone!

Cheers,
Andyflyer

Savage25

Did UA provide any payment options for someone booking it from overseas? I seem to recall someone paid with a CC over the phone then just flew in to BKK the day of the first flight to pick up the tickets.

Always Flyin

Glad to hear it and good to know.

The rule, as written, is about as clear as mud.