Frayed_Yak

Many times, E+ seating goes unfilled, just to have E- passengers self-op-up themselves to E+. If E+ access is being denied to *G/*S, I would hope it's because there is such great demand for paid E+ access.

Dromomaniac

I think we've seen a gentle slide into United treating E+ as a separate cabin/class of service, instead of just a perk for its elite (and reciprocal elite) passengers.

We have over the past year:
- More announcements prohibiting self-upgrading to E+, including recent announcements that passengers in Y- are not to even enter the Y+ "cabin"
- Buy-up opportunity to "upgrade" to Y+ for a fee, just like United does with its Y-to-C check-in upgrade opportunities
- Fee-based programs (E+ Access) to gain access to the seating

It would not surprise me if we eventually saw E+ sold as a separate cabin. In fact, in many ways we are almost there:

F,A,P - 1st Class
C,D,Z - Business Class
Y,B - Economy Plus
M... - Economy

Think of elites as receiving upgrade instruments for Y>C and C>F upgrades, and receiving unlimited upgrades Y>Y+. I realize we aren't there yet - for example you don't get a downgrade package if your full-Y fare lands you in the back of the plane - but I could see United's vision of its E+ product not being compatible with allowing *G access based on that factor alone.

Of course, E+ doesn't really stand up to the true premium-economy classes offered by NZ, SQ, and the like; I suppose the same statement could be made of UA's C cabins too.

luv2ctheworld

That's what I hope too, or it would possibly mean that there's enough demand from UA *G members themselves that it's too crowded with non-UA *G.

SFOtoORD

I have had the opposite experience with the LH people on an upcoming BCN-MUC flight in C. They will not put me in 1 or 2.

PHLGovFlyer

Also interesting that the new web site http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6722,1314,00.html
does not list Premier Associate as getting E+. A few weeks ago my GF and her son (as a companion) got into E+ since she's a 3P. Of course the old web site also didn't list 3Ps as getting E+

Dromomaniac

I've got to think this is still a benefit for 3P. If not 3P is essentially meaningless. It's still listed on this page:

http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6722,51594,00.html

simong

Lets hope this one isnt true, I note this page http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6722,51331,00.html still lists the benefit.

Someone posted it was an issue to get E+ seating reserved ahead of time ex Australia as a *G, I can state I have never had any issues with this. Indeed when I had the chance to chat to talk to the GM for UA in Australia/NZ at the 1k cocktail party earlier in the year I told him it was the one thing that kept me onboard UA. If this is a perm change, I will be dropping him a line telling him I will be on QF from now on.

I also can't belive they would take it away from the Y/B fares as well, so lets hope that its just a mistake.

I just hope someone who works for UA can clarify?

Flyin4MAG

Interesting...I certainly was under the impression that paying for an E+ seat (fare class if you prefer) would be significantly more expensive (on about the same order that you list above) on UA than an E- seat, without that access being given for free due to status.

Let's take a 777 flying over the Pacific as an example. E+ on UA would be considered a "different cabin" by most, just as on a NZ 777.

Pitch for UA E+ 34-36", width is 18", E- is 31", width is 18".
NZ Premium Economy is 38-40" 17.8" width, Economy 32", 17.8"
(data from SeatGuru)

Sounds to me approximately about the same jump in service (4" of pitch minumum from E- to E+, 6" for Economy to Premium Economy for NZ). For *G on UA it is free (or has been to this point), on NZ it is not. One could reasonably argue that might not be completely equitable.

Just throwing it out there.

I also believe that the alliance should make reciprocal arrangements better for their most loyal flyers (which of course would benefit me personally -- so not an unbiased voice here), and do not believe that UA should deny access to E+ to *G members.

SFO_Runner

Seats in Economy Plus on UA are not physically different than the ones in Economy. The only difference is the amount of physical distance between the seats.

Premium Economy on BA, NH, SK, and VS provide a different physical seat than the seat in Economy (Regular, Minus, etc.). These seats are both wider and provide additional recline.

Cabin Configuration:

E+ on a UA 772: 2 -5 -2
Premium Eco on a NH/BA 772: 2 - 4 - 2

Oh, did I mention Premium on NZ, NH, and BA provide in-seat power whereas regular Economy do not?

All of this being said, I'm waiting for someone to start this thread:

"After UA installs their new Business Class product, they should take the old Business Class seats and install them in Economy Plus. This would make Economy Plus more competitive with the other Premium Economy products out there. Of course, as a 1K, I should never have to pay for the ugprade into this seating area. "

LPCJr

If this is true then UA will no longer get any of my business. I've done a number of flights where I've had a choice of US or UA, and I've always seen E+ as a great reason to pick UA. Now, there's effectively no difference. At least with US I get a shot (however remote) of an upgrade, and I can access preferred seating (exit rows, bulkheads, etc.)

Jetstreamer

My last 2 experiences with UA I have been denied E+ access as a *G ahead of time. The first time I booked with Expedia and I could see and select the E+ seats on the seatmap yet when I clicked request seat I got put straight into the back again. I did however get the seats easily at check in. The other time I couldn't get seats at check in (was done with BD at MAN) and had to fly ORD-YVR in the back. Both of these flights were NOT booked directly with UAL.

The other day I booked a LHR-LAX round trip on unitedairlines.co.uk and was automatically assigned E+ seats and had no problem changing them over the phone.

Could it be that these seats are only available ahead of time if booking with UA directly? This has certainly been my experience recently.

Not that it matters but United's UK site still lists *S+G as having access:

http://www.unitedairlines.co.uk/qeng...nomy_plus.html

The Lev

Not when I being it up on MY computer. Here is what I get:

Economy Plus seating
Economy Plus is available on most of our flights. Advance seating assignment in Economy Plus is available on a first-come, first-served basis to the following customers:

Mileage PlusŪ members who have Mileage Plus Premier status or above.
Star AllianceTM Gold and Silver members.
Any customers who purchase full-fare Economy Class tickets (Y, B and M booking class).

FlyerGoldII

The above web site is the British UA web site.
The Canadian UA web site also states that Star Alliance Gold and Silver members have the E+ access.

http://www.united.ca/english/travel_...nomy_plus.html

The question is whether the American UA web site was updated, reflecting a new change (ie loss of E+ access to Star Alliance Gold and Silver passengers) - and the foreign UA web sites will be so updated, or whether the American UA web site was updated with this line not being added as an oversight.

PS22

Not premier associate? I would surely hope that it also counts for the E+ seating as I just gave one to my wife (using the 75K EQM rewards).

AdamUK

Welcome to FT Nice to have someone on the inside this side of the Atlantic ^