Is being moved from E- to E+ considered an op-up?
 

With the number of op-up related threads increasing (and the number of people seemingly getting op-ups decreasing), I now submit a long-standing question to the FT Council of Correctitude:

Is being moved from E- to E+ considered an op-up?

Yes: Because E+ is a service is not freely available to all pax
No: E+ is in the same cabin as E-, and access is not granted using standard upgrade instruments

Yes: An op-up can occur between any two differentiated products, and usually depends on substiantial differences in seat availability between two contiguous products
No: E+ is not a separate class of service from E-

So how do the Chief Justices (and Circuit Court Judges, etc) of FT rule?

No, it's not officially, but there are good points of discussion here, so I'm interested in seeing what you all have to say.

If we limit the term 'op-up' as strictly complimentary movement of passengers from one cabin/class to another, then E- to E+ will not be considered as an op-up.

However, in my book, UA's elites and others who get free access to E+ when flying economy, already get complimentary upgrade. UA's E+ seats clearly offer more space and comfort, and one of the reasons I will only fly UA (as much as possible) when flying domestically and internationally. It's an op-up ^

I say no. A change of seating within a cabin is not an upgrade. Otherwise, you would have to call moving from a middle to an aisle or window an op-up as well.

If it were an upgrade, then you would also be entitled to a downgrade kit if moved from E+ to E-.

No, the only difference between E- & E+ IMO is the seat pitch. If this is OP-UP to E+, then you will need a 3rd/4th class in Y for bulk and exit rows....

The whole E+ marketing / branding is interesing. Its a cabin within a cabin. Its similar to middle seat blocking, in that its not guaranteed.

I'm not even sure UA has quite decided if its a separate cabin, or the same cabin. Y/B seats can still be sold if E+ is sold out. There are no fare classes associated with seats in E+ (only you can sit there if there is space). Inventory management does not manage E+ inventory. FAs may/may not enforce seat assignments in E/E+. etc etc.

While there are advantages of this, (not least of which is the employer that only pays for the lowest class and would not therefore pay for premium economy as a separate class :mad: ), the whole positioning of E+ is somewhat schizophrenic IMO.

So is it an op-up. Its in the eye of the beholder. If you believe you have been op-uped, and it makes you happy, then go with it. :p

My parents were offered to "upgrade" for $55 from E- to E+ from KOA to SFO. While not an "op-up", it has to be considered an upgrade of somesort. And no, neither are UA or US elite.

I really didn't think about this before, but if UA offers upgrades to E+ for cash, why don't they offer cash back for an involuntary downgrade from E+ to E-?

*****

You don't have far to look. There are several threads about exactly this kind of maneuver.

No, its not considered an op-up.
Next.

Since you are moving to a better seat in the same cabin, and not to a higher cabin, No, it is not an upgrade. The same fare classes sit in E+ & E- everyday, where as sitting in C or F requires a new higher booking class.

If E+ is an op-up, then an exit row, bulkhead or even middle->window/aisle must be an op-up. So I think not.

I think it comes down to your notion of just how significant an improvement in your flying situation has occurred. On UA there are some seats in the E- section that are considered better than most of the E+ seats on certain aircraft types. Add to that the fact that the level of service is no different between E+ and E- and the case gets weaker still.

Finally, IMHO it comes down to a matter of common usage on FT. On FT an “op up” has always meant something quite significant. Something where your flying experience was greatly improved and you were thrilled to get it. In other words, something worthy of posting on FT! I honestly don’t think that the difference between E+ and E- passes that threshold.

I've never gotten a downgrade kit for sitting in E- as opposed to E+ as an elite. ;)

I've personally seen, twice, FA tell people that they cannot move to E+, that it is a different fare (after they moved on their own accord!)

That, combined with the fact that it costs extra! to sit in E+ without status... seems like more of an op-up than not to me. Definitely a SMALL op-up, but still an op-up.