NYCWahoo

We can arugue all about WP writer's comments, B6 business model, etc...to me one thing is clear: Jetblues' cabin crew's attitude is far superior than UA's. I don't blame United FAs(or most legacy carriers)---if you have been doing same job for last 20yrs, wouldn't you be cranky too?

LinBros

Fascinating discussion. Would like to make the following points:

1. Trip reports and creative suggestions on TED should not be sent to Sara Fields (who reportedly is on her way out). Instead send your concerns to Glen Tilton, Chairman and CEO and Sean Donohue, VP - TED & United Express (actual title is something I don't recall but this suggested moniker will certainly get it to him) at United World Headquarters, 1200 East Algonquin Road, Elk Grove Village, IL 60005. They are the guys who can make things happen.

2. The only "security" issue involved with the FA behavior detailed by the OP is "job security". Actually employees (including pilots and FAs) are required by UA policy to provide their first name and domicile if queried. You may also request to see their United ID.

3. As for "can of Coke" issue -- angering a customer for a 50 cent can of Coke (does that make half a can only a quarter?) such that they take one less flight worth at least $50 (and probably more than $100) not to mention telling evryone they know who might also choose not to fly TED (or worse yet United) isn't smart.

naka_1k

Jet,

Thanks for the useful response. I'll mail additional letters tomorrow.

I just checked the US Postal Service web site (usps.com), to double check the address of WHQ, and this is what they recommend:

1200 E ALGONQUIN RD
ARLINGTON HEIGHTS IL 60005-4712

This is different than what's in the United FAQ in this forum (different zip code, and postal city, as opposed to physical city).

I sent the original letter to Sara Fields, since I considered this to be a personnel matter.

Naka

DCBob

EXCUSE me, but UX does not fly any 5 hour flights as TED does (IAD-LAS) and UX DOES give out full cans of soft drinks. In fact, I just got one on the 20-minute flight on UX from IAD-MDT and I was not even expecting to get one on such a short flight. TED can easily fix this problem overnight!

DCBob

Obviously, it it is NOT accurate. As has been pointed out, WN will give ANY passenger a full can of soda on request. TED can certainly do that, it's just that the FAs have been told they CANNOT comply with any such request (for fear they might lose their jobs). As ridiculous as it sounds, I have had FAs offer me TWO cups instead of ONE can, because that "doesn't violate the rule." How can that policy then be a logistical issue? Get that silly rule dropped NOW, please.

yogi

Well the B6 flight IAD-BOS this morning was pretty good compared to UA/UAX EMB-145.

Depart from Terminal B (which is pretty nice.) 6' 5" clearance in the aisle, 40 channels of DirectTV, 544 MPH, 34 inch pitch, plenty of laptop room, no middles, online checkin worked fine, water/coffee/OJ plus chips or cookie free. Our "all girl crew, chicks rule" (their words) got us into Boston 17 minutes early. Lots of B6 people helping with the loading/turn. I like how it is the same product no matter what plane you are on, not 8 levels of service like at UA Int/UA Dom/TED/UAX.

Recommendation for TED. Just buy/copy B6, and if someone is on paid F, block the seat next to them (do not sell it to anyone).
Recommendation for UAX. Get the E170/E190. 100 seats 2 FAs, someone was thinking on that one.... Mainline UA could use these too.....

HonestABE

Skies,

The problem with this business model is that the quality of service across UA/UX/TED is all over the map.

Does UA do itself a favor by insisting that its customers put up with a much lower quality of service when they fly UX/TED?

Are those of us who are based in smaller markets required to "get used to" dirty, cramped planes, lower quality ground and flight crews, and frequently delayed/canceled flights as the "price" we pay for choosing to fly UX instead of a competitor?

Are those of us who happen to fly to so-called "leisure" destinations required to "get used to" the lower quality service offered by TED?

Here's the dilemma....

If I, and other loyal UA customers, "get used to" this lower quality service, and remain loyal to UA, does that not embolden UA management to lower the quality of service systemwide?

Am I my own worst enemy by sustaining my loyalty to UA?

ExCrew

Speaking as someone who has worked as crew, my question is this...why are ny of you suggestion that NAKA waste his/her time with the very people who cannot/will not resolve his/her issue?
Ultimately, who is in charge of that flight? The purser? Hardly. It's the person who occupies the left seat of the flight deck.
After the flight (and after all pax were disembarked), if your issue was that important, I would have asked to speak to the captain. I would have let her/him know that you were not happy with how you or other customers were being treated in the back. I would also ask would he/she mind if I got his/her name so I could enter it into my trip report for that flight. It's doubtful she/he would deny you that if you were indeed civil.
'Back of the plane' employees usually 'have each other's back' and will seldom turn on one another. Instead, they find ways to 'get to no' (instead of yes) with that pax. Sadly, it's often times done with snippiness and attitude. Pilots and f/as rarely fly more than 1 or 2 legs together, since their flying 'lines' (schedules) are built differently (different rules/contract). Therefore, most pilots won't take sides as they, for the most part, don't know their crew and will remain objective.
I would ABSOLUTELY never take a picture of a flight crewmember without permission. That, without a doubt, is one of the more idiotic suggestions I have seen listed here in months. This is a great way to land yourself off that flight and in front of an FBI agent...or worse. And nothing would make that snippy f/a happier than to call in a security violation involving you.

Boraxo

Agreed. And I think that is the point of the WashPost story.

I certainly understand why it makes sense for FAs not to serve full cans unless requested. However, there is no need for FA's to REFUSE a reasonable request just to save a few pennies, as you rarely see the whole plane asking for the whole can. In fact, it is just downright idiotic. If that is corporate policy then it is simply wrong. It would be better just to sell the drinks like RyanAir (though I don't think that went over too well in AA's recent experiment).

Contrast the TED experience to WN. I usually don't get full cans on short WN flights either, but the FAs are happy to provide one if requested, not to mention additional pretzels. Often I even get free alcoholic drinks due to delays, holidays or just because the FA is in a good mood. ^ If UA empowered its employees to provide similar service, it would leave the customer with much nicer feelings about the airline.

AdamUK

Great point - but where do you draw the line? Alcoholic freebies if FA bumps into someone? Employees should be allowed to use their discretion but for £££/$$$ sake have limits.

Sneezy

Dang. If it's that important to you to have a full can, pop a dollar into a vending machine somewhere, or keep a case at home and bring one with you. It's not that hard to get a full can of soda if you really want one.

B6 consistently has just about the worst on-time performance of any airline and flies planes that can't do a westbound transcon if there's a decent headwind. The interesting point of the review is that those points were totally glossed over. One little blurb along the lines of "yes, every JetBlue flight was late, but the FAs all smiled at me and even recited an epic poem about my wartime heroism as I walked down the red-carpeted jetway through the perfumed air as birds sang a sweet song in the distance."

And FWIW - I've had success getting a full can on Ted.

Didn't thing it was important enough to start a thread on FT about it, though....

DCBob

You don't get it, do you? It is the principle that counts here.

If it is that important, why can't UNITED just GIVE the passenger the whole can and not worry about the extra 15 cents that it cost THEM? They already do that on mainline United and UX, too.

Little things become BIG things and cost a lot more in customer goodwill than they are worth. If they can SELL you a FULL CAN of beer, they can certainly give out a FULL CAN of soda pop, too.

Sneezy

I get it just fine.

But if not giving out a full can of soda means that UA only has to roll out a single drink cart to every TED plane for the first flight of the day and doesn't have to cater it again until the next day, that makes turning a TED flight a lot faster, cheaper, and easier.

How many times have you seen boarding held up or slowed down because the plane was still being catered? And if TED is boarding from both ends there's no way to cater the plane and not block boarding.

The margins are so thin in the airline business that every penny does count. Every minute does, too. If UA can cut TED turn time down from 1 1/2 hours to 1 hour consistently, that probably means they can squeeze one more flight from that aircraft for each and every day they own it.

And if you think UA doesn't know what they're doing despite all the whining about "I want my full can of soda!", I'm sure UA's lurking on these boards and they'll take your airline industry experience into account when weighting your comment.

emma dog

It seems to me that a lot of things are repeated over and over about TED and I'm wondering if any of it is true:

1) TED is low cost for UA
2) TED allows for greater revenue per flight (more seats to compensate for more low fares in the bucket
3) TED serves destinations where "no one" paid for F
4) TED planes have a fast turn-around
5) TED acts as an incubator for the rest of UA
6) TED is profitable

Does anyone know the answers to these with facts?

Peter M

Excrews comments:

Happily, in my half a million miles on UA/TED, I have never really experienced any really bad apples. ^ It's not that TED causes big problems, it's really a mix of small customer service problems and the lack of First Class.