1P

I find UA777 J unacceptable. UA 767 J is a different story.

777, the 2-4-2 configuration needs to be rethought as a matter of urgency. The inner two of the 4 is a horrible place to end up.

And the OP is right that the 777 J FAs appear to be ghastly in comparison with the 767 FAs. Can this be because they have to work rather harder in this cabin, not just because there are more pax to look after but because servicing the two inner seats of the middle 4 is more testing for the FAs?

Reaching across other pax in the confined space provided by the "upright consoles" between the seats is much more awkard with lie-flat seats than it is in domestic F or old-style C. I have not only seen things spilled on the outer pair, I have frequently seen the outer pair being asked to assist in handing things to the inner pair. Most people are gracious, but I'm just waiting to hear someone say "No, that's your job, not mine. What happens if I spill it?"

harryhood

On the one hand, I entirely agree that a 2-4-2 configuration is undesireable relative to others we have seen in the market. On the other hand, UA's upgrades seem to be easier to come by than on other carriers. So for those of us who rely on upgrades because we can't afford to buy (and our corporate travel policy forbids purchasing) J class tickets, I prefer having a few more extra seats in J to increase the chances I snag an upgrade. A middle J seat in the 2-4-2 configuration of the 777 is infinitely more preferable to a Y seat on any TATL or TPAC flight, even though it is not desirable compared to some better airlines.

For those who can or are permitted to buy J, then apart from mileage bonuses for the fare class, and apart from considerations relating to timing (e.g., the DXB-IAD nonstop versus stopover in some European airport), I can understand the frustration.

SFflyer123

You are 100% correct. You've hit the nail on the head.

UA's strategy in the past was to try to focus on their MP program, giving upgrades to loyal flyers. In return, they'd get a business class upgrade via an SWU. Given that most of their business class is filled with upgraders, United no longer needed to make their business class on par with other major international carriers. They figured that very few people will pay cash for their business product, so there is no need to spend lots of money in something mainly for upgraders. People would rather shell out the cash for SQ or LX instead of UA, so UA focused on upgrader and just put out a mediocre business class product.

Now, however, the story is changed. No longer is UA offering easy upgrades for their elite members (prime example, NC availability is becoming as rare as hen's teeth). SWU's are being tossed away yearly by many 1k's (just tossed 5 of my 6 this year) because many don't want to pla any trip without NC confirmation.

So now, UA can't compete with other international carriers because their business class is inferior nor can they rely on the upgraders anymore. If an upgrade is going to shell out $4000 for a J ticket SFO-ZRH, you can bet that more likely than not, he's going to fly LX instead of UA, especially since he will get the EQM's and the RDM's on LX.

Thus, UA really needs to focus on its strategy. If they want people to pay top dollar for their J product, they need to make it competitive with the other carriers' (that includes making sure FA's are nice to customers). If they want to rely on the upgraders MP loyalty, they need to make it easier for 1k's and elites to upgrade otherwise, they will simply fly other carriers internationally if forced to shell out that much cash for J.

boolean64

Not going to apologize for UA's soft product. It is hit or miss...as is CO's soft product. However, I have to point out that many of the "great airlines" such as LH, BA, and quantas have middle seats in business class. In fact BA does the same as new UA with 8-across in some aircraft.

Same with the bar cart. LH does this too. And if they didn't do the bar cart, I'm sure someone on here would be complaining about how service was slow and they wanted to get to bed sooner. Can't please everyone.

I think UA has picked its battles. It invested in the hard product, which I must say is pretty competitive with many airlines (obviously not the likes of SQ and CX). I can't emphasize how disappointed I was with LH's seat and AVOD in F. If that's all I cared about, I would have been better off in UA C. And that is indeed what a lot of American flyers care about.

Should UA invest in its soft product? absolutely. But I think it's unfair to say that UA fails across the board in C.

Baze

I am having a hard time understanding something. What is the difference between reaching across 1 seat from the middle 2 than reaching across the 1 seat from the window? The middle 2 and the window still have to go through 1 seat to get to the aisle. No difference. Is it just that it looks more crowded having 4 across in the middle?

1P

Ah. You evidently haven't seen FAs reaching across two seats, then.

On at least half of my recent 777 trips, I have seen FAs working the middle 4 as serve 1 from the r.h. aisle and the other three from the l.h. side. Don't ask me why. And even when this doesn't happen and they serve 2 and 2, FAs doing water service will often reach across two seats. And then of course you have the situation where you're in one of the middle two and the FA on your side has omitted/forgotten to serve you, and you have to attract the attention of/get served by someone on the other side.

And yes, it does look more crowded. I have not measured the middle four seats, but I suspect that they are a good 1/2 an inch narrower than the window/aisle pair. Has anyone tested this? Perhaps it is just that I remember how my buttocks felt in the old C seats, 2 + 3 + 2, that I traveled in so often. The new ones are definitely less comfortable from the point of view of width, and I do not have big buttocks.

Skacorica

Dead horse, meet baseball bat.

SFO777

Meal prep sequence at UA Catering?

Baze

Then that is a FA procedural problem.

mduell

I agree with all your observations.

I haven't had a problem avoiding the middle seats (a quarter of the cabin), but perhaps you booked late and were stuck there.

I've found the same FA attitude/barking on CO; I haven't flown the other US based carriers in years.

I'll continue to fly UA C because it's one of the most accessible J cabins on the market. And worlds better than similarly priced premium economy cabins.

N1120A

No, UA C Class (we don't call it J) is not nearly as bad as you make it out to be.

1) The hard product is as good as any airline in the business. I do agree that the 777 and 747 LD 2-4-2 configuration is ridiculous

2) The soft product can use improvement, but isn't exactly terrible. The appetizers (generally smoked pacific salmon and a vegetable mix) are good, the entree/main is merely ok, the salads are always fresh with excellent dressing and I really enjoy both the desserts and cheeses. I like the port they serve.

3) The service is where I disagree the most. I have never, ever had poor service from a United in-flight crew. The worst service I've had was professional, but uninspired. The vast majority of the time, the service is among the best in the business.

Luvs2snowbordbut1kSEA

+1

mre5765

+2.

Flew 3 LH long haul segments in C last month (was a last minute thing, so no time to get paper SWUs for F which is where I normally sit; I'm stupid), and one UA C segment in upper deck 747.

No question: UA seat, service, and food were better. I give LH the edge on beer selection.

UA F is where the airline falls down. Old LH F over new UA F any day.

CASAFlyer

I guess that depends on priorities. I never experienced LH F, but Ms. CASAFlyer flew DEN-FRA r/t in LH F (old F in the 744 with two seats for herself): she rated LH seat(s) and IFE clearly inferior to new UA F. Service was great on DEN-FRA, but so-so on FRA-DEN. LH wins clearly for meals (she does not drink but from the wine list, that is a win over UA as well). She was really impressed by the LH FC lounge.

entropy

I'm unclear how a "middle" in the 4 is materially different from the window seat? You have to jump over someone in either case and the FA has to reach to get to you. Is it "crowded" relative to 2-2-2? yeah, so what. The bed is comfortable. OTOH, the non-IPTE 777s suck.

I think UA's soft product is fine. They may not be SQ, or LH, but LH doesn't have lie-flat in C.