LIH

Kirby was on CNBC this morning and they made him spend 80% of the interview talking about UA's max issues. He sounded totally befuddled.

Not a great look when he said "we have to fix this fast". I think the focus on "fast" may be part of the problem here. Just a bunch of 50th percentile MBAs around this banana dance.

No more MAX 10 planes as part of their formal fleet planning.

Kmxu

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/23/unit...-10-order.html

• United is considering fleet plans without the Boeing 737 Max 10.
• Kirby said the Max 9 grounding after a door plug blew on an Alaska Airlines flight is the “straw that broke the camel’s back.”

ty97

After the recent problems with Boeing, Scott Kirby is casting doubt on the future of the Max 10 in the United fleet. The Max 9 issues are the “straw that broke the camel’s back.”

This could be financial posturing, or it could be a sea change in UA's fleet approach. Will be interesting to see.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/23/unit...-10-order.html

meijiem

Is the A321 a potential substitute for the Max10? And does this indicate United are happy with their initial experience of the A321?

I am trying to read between the lines, but maybe there are no lines where I think they are.

escapefromphl

Of course they shouldn't go near the Max-10, without a deep deep discount, ie practically free.

pseudoswede

A321neo has 12 more seats than what is planned for the MAX10, so not a huge difference--though the MAX10 has a smidge more cargo space and MTOW.

oopl

Lol, that's likely the case. I do hope UA will order more of the A321neo.
This may cause them to actually want delivery of the A350 order.

CLEguy

New A321 order would push out deliveries relative to Max10 timing. Initial take is that this is posturing to secure more favorable pricing from Boeing.

UA_Flyer

I have flown quite a bit on A359 over the last a few years and have been very impressed with the aircraft. This is not to say I view it as more superior than the 787, but for any global airlines there is room for both types. This is not a Coke vs Pepsi or Bug Light vs Miller Light debate.

I do think A350 is a perfect replacement for 772ER and 77W in the UA fleet. I am not too sure about 789/7810 can replace all the 772ER/77W from range and/or capacity perspective. I know many of us wish UA can order the 777X, but with the problem with the 777X program, timing and reliability are still uncertain.

More A321Neo is a no brainer for me.

Kacee

From a passenger perspective, the Airbus are better aircraft. The cabins are wider than the comparable Boeings and the aircraft are much quieter insider. That's putting aside the issue of aircraft falling from the sky or the QC issues at Boeing, which appear to be really really bad.

The problem is that (or one of them) that Airbus doesn't exactly have a bunch of these sitting on the shelf waiting to be shipped to customers.

KabAir

Both of my grandfathers were engineers for Boeing. One primarily in propulsion, the other on a myriad of projects, his pride and joy being the 757. I have loved Boeing since I was a kid. After the MCAS incidents I assured my friends and family that while this had been a massive mistake, Boeing would get back on track and the MAX would be the safest plane in the sky after all of the scrutiny it would go under. I believed it myself, and I never hesitated to get on a MAX. Until now. I'm supposed to fly a MAX 8 next week and I'm actually nervous about it, because who knows what else might be lurking on these airframes. Sure the 8 doesn't have the plug door, but the broader issue now goes way beyond that. Boeing clearly has a major quality control problem. And I'm very relieved I'll be flying an A319 back home. I never thought I'd say that.

I have no idea what Scott Kirby's actual motivation is with his comments - whether it's a sincere plan to shift away from Boeing, or whether it's a financial move. But if I had to guess, I actually think it's the former. I think there are people who were "true believers" in Boeing - like me - and probably like Kirby, who have now in fact lost all faith. But even aside from this, I think that at this point, relying on a Boeing fleet would be a major business blunder. Not only are you hurting your brand by flying these planes now, but you're putting your entire business at risk the next time the fleet gets grounded.

What happens down the road when half of United's fleet and the vast majority of the domestic fleet consists of the MAX 8-10 variants, and then they all get grounded when a MAX vertical stabilizer isn't attached right and falls off somewhere in the world? United is hurting enough as it is right now without their handful of Max 9's. Now imagine that they had to ground every single 737 in their fleet right this moment. It would be a catastrophe.

At this point, continuing to buy the MAX is playing Russian Roulette with whether you'll actually be able to use them the majority of the time, or whether they'll just sit on the ground while you go bankrupt and your competitors flying the Airbus take all of your customers. I believe that Kirby understands this, and is going to pivot to Airbus. But time will tell.

Kacee

It's more than that. Boeing's issues are hurting the airline. The MAX problem is going to be a big negative on Q1 earnings. Reported elsewhere that Kirby wants change at the top at Boeing.

oopl

It's odd that Alaska doubled-down on being "proudly all Boeing."
I'm reminded of that time when United retired its 737 fleet in 2009.
They later came back with the Continental merger.

halls120

Sacking the CEO won't change a thing if the BOD continues to place ROI over everything else. Meeting the expectations of Wall Street matter more than building a quality product.

Just the other day I read an article about furniture. Seems like people who spent $3K on a sofa are finding out that they have to replace it 3 years after purchase because the manufacturers are substituting cheaper foam and framing products for what they used to use. Sound familiar?

UA_Flyer

Talk about reliance on 737 MAX (all variants), there are huge orders from airlines that only fly the 737s.

Ryan Air
Southwest
Fly Dubai
Lion Air
Air Indian Express
Spice Air


of course United ordered 546 of various Max variants and is the largest single customer. It is prudent for United to manage its risk by diversify its exposure to the 737 Max.

Also, yesterday FAA issued order recommendation to airlines to check the 737-900 door plugs.