Do you feel safe flying United?
Mar 12, 2024, 3:29 pm
#46
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Hertz, Avis, National, Hyatt, Hilton, SPG, Marriott
Posts: 9,454
Sitting on a 738 waiting to push and the pilot just made an announcement that he needs “every person sitting next to a window to make sure the shades are fully open. This is a safety requirement and flight attendants will be walking through the cabin to ensure that everyone was listening”.
Definitely feeling safer.
Definitely feeling safer.
Mar 12, 2024, 4:55 pm
#47
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pasadena, California
Programs: UA 1K, 1MM
Posts: 10,412
And this is where we need to draw a line between incidents and the reporting of those incidents. I don't think it's at all a stretch to say that the former is random (and not clustered over the long term), while there is every reason to believe that the latter is not random at all. IOW, I think you're both right.
Mar 12, 2024, 5:42 pm
#48
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Programs: Sometimes known as [ARG:6 UNDEFINED]
Posts: 26,706
United is an incredibly safe airline in a vast array of very safe airlines.
(Pedant alert: You can't count 9/11 for these purposes.)
Mar 12, 2024, 5:48 pm
#49
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NYC / TYO / Up in the Air
Programs: UA GS 1.7MM, AA 2.1MM, EK, BA, SQ, CX, Marriot LT, Accor P
Posts: 6,319
Mar 12, 2024, 6:16 pm
#50
Join Date: Jan 2005
Programs: SQ, QF, UA, CO, DL
Posts: 2,890
Hello, fellow travelers,
I'm reaching out for insights on United Airlines' safety, hoping to ease some recent concerns of mine. My message is grounded in genuine curiosity and a desire for reassurance rather than criticism.
A bit about my flying history to give context: My aviation journey began in the early 1980s on a trans-Atlantic flight operated by a DC-10, an aircraft whose safety record left much to be desired. Those days, the anxiety of flying was palpable for me, influenced heavily by the aviation disasters of the time. Over the years, my confidence in air travel grew thanks to improving safety records across the industry. By the 2010s, my fears had all but vanished, supported by statistics showing a significant decline in aviation fatalities.
However, recent incidents involving United Airlines have reignited my apprehension. With five occurrences in just under two weeks, I can't help but ponder if these are mere coincidences or if they suggest deeper issues within the airline, such as cultural, maintenance, or leadership challenges.
I understand that, statistically, air travel remains extremely safe, especially in North America, the EU, and similar regions. Yet, the frequency of these recent events has led to a resurgence of my 1980s flying anxieties, specifically when considering flying with United.
I'm eager to hear your thoughts and experiences. Is my unease unfounded? Your perspectives would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you for taking the time to share your insights.
I'm reaching out for insights on United Airlines' safety, hoping to ease some recent concerns of mine. My message is grounded in genuine curiosity and a desire for reassurance rather than criticism.
A bit about my flying history to give context: My aviation journey began in the early 1980s on a trans-Atlantic flight operated by a DC-10, an aircraft whose safety record left much to be desired. Those days, the anxiety of flying was palpable for me, influenced heavily by the aviation disasters of the time. Over the years, my confidence in air travel grew thanks to improving safety records across the industry. By the 2010s, my fears had all but vanished, supported by statistics showing a significant decline in aviation fatalities.
However, recent incidents involving United Airlines have reignited my apprehension. With five occurrences in just under two weeks, I can't help but ponder if these are mere coincidences or if they suggest deeper issues within the airline, such as cultural, maintenance, or leadership challenges.
I understand that, statistically, air travel remains extremely safe, especially in North America, the EU, and similar regions. Yet, the frequency of these recent events has led to a resurgence of my 1980s flying anxieties, specifically when considering flying with United.
I'm eager to hear your thoughts and experiences. Is my unease unfounded? Your perspectives would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you for taking the time to share your insights.
Just checking in to see if you have other questions or if there is some angle we have not explored for you. Hope it helped in some way.
Mar 12, 2024, 6:45 pm
#52
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Texas
Programs: UA, AA, DL, BA, Marriott, Hilton, Accor, Hyatt
Posts: 1,292
Thanks for starting this thread, you are not alone in how your views have been shaped by media coverage of the recent incidents. And thanks to everyone else for sharing their thoughts.
Just checking in to see if you have other questions or if there is some angle we have not explored for you. Hope it helped in some way.
Just checking in to see if you have other questions or if there is some angle we have not explored for you. Hope it helped in some way.
Collectively, you have made a very compelling case that the current occurrences are not a reflection of a systematic problem within UA (poor maintenance or poor management). So, I am willing to accept that the rather unusual frequency of recent incidents is purely coincidental, especially when considering that the media is more likely to report minor incidents than it was decades ago. In statistical terms, I would call this a two-standard deviation event. It's rare that it happens without cause, but it's possible.
In conclusion, I will be making no changes to my travel plans at the moment.
However, in the spirit of Bayes' theorem, I may revise my views if and when additional incidents occur with an unusually high frequency. Let's hope, for the sake of everyone here, that we will never have to reopen this thread in the future.
Best wishes to all!
Mar 12, 2024, 6:46 pm
#53
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NYC / TYO / Up in the Air
Programs: UA GS 1.7MM, AA 2.1MM, EK, BA, SQ, CX, Marriot LT, Accor P
Posts: 6,319
I used to live in upstate NY -- I remember this well:
UEX (CO) Buffalo Crash Yes it was Continental at the time -- but my original point is that UA gets painted negatively with all of the UEX subs....
UEX (CO) Buffalo Crash Yes it was Continental at the time -- but my original point is that UA gets painted negatively with all of the UEX subs....
Mar 12, 2024, 7:31 pm
#55
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NYC, LON
Programs: *
Posts: 2,774
In my mind these events reinforce the safety of US air travel as the system behaved the way it should have by maintaining the safe passage of passengers and crew despite any incidents; to me they actually demonstrate how safe air travel has become.
Last edited by ani90; Mar 12, 2024 at 8:59 pm
Mar 12, 2024, 8:40 pm
#57
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Saipan, MP 96950 USA (Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands = the CNMI)
Programs: UA Silver, Hilton Silver. Life: UA .57 MM, United & Admirals Clubs (spousal), Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,058
My brother works for United in their SFO maintenance depot. He assures me that they follow all maintenance, documentation and safety inspections to FAA requirements. The loss of the tire at SFO is a screw up and the landing gear shop will investigate and make sure this doesn't happen again. The engine fire appears to be caused by the engine ingesting some bubble wrap, which is a FOD issue not an engine maintenance issue. . . .
FOD = foreign object debris
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_object_damage
Mar 12, 2024, 9:31 pm
#58
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Texas
Programs: UA, AA, DL, BA, Marriott, Hilton, Accor, Hyatt
Posts: 1,292
By Bayes theorem there should be no need to revise your views even with additional 'incidents'. You pretest expectation of an air disaster is (or should be) so infinitesimally low that no incidents should change that.
In my mind these events reinforce the safety of US air travel as the system behaved the way it should have by maintaining the safe passage of passengers and crew despite any incidents; to me they actually demonstrate how safe air travel has become.
In my mind these events reinforce the safety of US air travel as the system behaved the way it should have by maintaining the safe passage of passengers and crew despite any incidents; to me they actually demonstrate how safe air travel has become.