sodaisei

Hello,

Last month on 9/11 I flew BIO - FRA - IAD - DTW on United metal (except BIO - FRA that was on Lufthansa). Paid J, booked on United, and I am *G on ANA.

The IAD - DTW leg ended up being delayed more than 7 hours. Flight number was UA 6362. The reason of the delay was the plane was stuck in other airport because of weather. Of course, the weather in IAD and DTW was OK without any issues.

Considering case C-561/20 Q v. United Airlines, Inc, I contacted United to claim EU261 compensation and this has been their answer:

The weather in Dulles was perfect, and I recall no other flights were affected. It is true that the plane that was supposed to take us from IAD to DTW was stuck in New York due to bad weather, but that's not a valid excuse, neither.

How should I proceed? Should I reply their e-mail claiming that weather was not an issue in IAD? How can I show them proof? Or should I just forget about dealing with them and claim EU261 through other method?
I am a Spanish citizen based in Spain, and the Spanish claim system is actually very bad or almost non-existent. I read before here that the German one was very fast and reliable.

Please advise.

Thank you.

jhayes_1780

There was a weather waiver posted: Travel Waiver: East Coast Severe Weather (September 8 - 11)


This is more of a question, not an answer... But does EC261 even apply on a IAD-DTW flight?

sannmann

Your next step would be to file a complaint with SOEP, the German conciliation body.

https://soep-online.de/en/

dinoscool3

My limited understanding would be that if the aircraft was tied up in weather in EWR (which you admit) then weather is a legit reason?

There was a new court case that says that it would, yes.

Repooc17

It would. 261 considers your actual arrival time at final destination vs. scheduled arrival time, assuming part/all of the itinerary includes one or more 261 eligible flight(s).

With all that said, OP, just because IAD had no weather issues, the aircraft couldn't get to IAD because of weather.

jsloan

Agreed. UA isn't "lying."

That said, the ECJ appears to be of the opinion that airlines should have infinite fleets of planes and crews stashed throughout their network so that a delayed inbound flight never caused an onward delay, so OP may win the EC.261 lottery anyway.

OP: Did you follow UA's EC.261 process by as described here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/35470762-post1446.html ? If so, your next step is going to be to file in a European court.

sannmann

I'd recommend filing with SOEP next. Courts cost money and legal hours.

jsloan

Fair enough. I don't remember the arcana around which countries somebody can file in -- since the delay was in the US on a US carrier, I figured the origin airport (BIO - Spain) or the residence country (again, Spain) were the only options, but since it passed through FRA I guess the Germans might have jurisdiction too.

Kacee

I'd just let it go. Not worth the hassle.

smartytravel

This is the WORST piece of advice. The OP should 100% pursue this.

Worst comes to worst, you may want to contact one of the online attorneys to go after United.

Kacee

Really? How much is your time worth? I've got better things to do than deal with pursuing an overseas claim that's going to net me, at best, 450 Euro.

This is such an edge case under EU261, both due to flight location and cause of delay, it doesn't even have the "UA is in the wrong" motivator for me.

gmt4

100% agree. Weather happens. Arguing after the fact is a waste of everyones' time.

And that company given in the link above (www.soep.de) are nothing but ambulance chasers masquerading as people claiming to be interested in protecting travelers' rights.

narvik

OP, what was your final delay into DTW? Less than 7 hours, right?
I'd also be inclined to drop this, as it is a fringe case at best, where the outcome could go either way, despite you putting in much effort in trying to resolve it in your favor.

In the grand scheme of things, and considering you traveled halfway around the world, on different airlines and though several different countries, it is still amazing that you can get to your destination within a day, even if it is 7 hours later than expected because of unforeseen circumstances.

smartytravel

It takes 10 minutes to send to the online attorney. It's 100% worth pursuing your LEGAL rights and demanding compliance with LEGAL obligations.

corporate-wage-slave

Not quite. It is the case that if flying IAD to DTW, that DTW is recognised not to be a United Hub. So Extraordinary Circumstances on say IAD to DTW are allowed to impact the return IAD to DTW (which would only be in scope for EC261 on codeshares anyway). However the traveller here was going from Dulles to Detroit. The OP suggests that in fact the relevant aircraft was stuck in EWR (?) due to poor weather. That's what we call "knock-on", a rugby term, which is not allowed in EC261 (or rugby). IAD is a hub for United, as I understand it, and so the CJEU does assume that United, which is quite a large airline, would resource their fleet to accommodate a few weather incidents. In other words that they would have enough aircraft and crew to operate a replacement service. If United has taken the view that is too expensive then there is an "intolerable cost" test to that, and I can see right away that United will flunk that test. It suited United shareholders more than the passenger to take this action. Which under EC261 is OK to do, but you do need to compensate the passengers according to a particular tariff, here 600€ per passenger, if they are delayed by more than 4 hours. Had the weather affected an unusually high number of aircraft, that could be deemed to be different, since at a certain point it truly is extraordinary, but I've not see anything from the OP to indicate that.